Your observations on the presence of masculine-presenting female characters in high fantasy novels

[OP1000]

Hello!!!!
How do you view such types of characters making an appearance in high fantasy stories where the setting is similar to that of the medieval ages? Is it a rare thing to see such types of characters in high fantasy novels?

 

[SailusGebel]

Yes.

 

[Deleted member 54065]

Nowadays? I believe it's not. Not only does it serve men's fantasies, it also has that effect of making the story appealing to 'modern' ladies.

Older stories from earlier generations, however, might tell a different story. It's why the trope 'Damsel in Distress' became popular before, in the first place.

Personally? I hated writing weak characters. Hence, I write my ladies with skills and courage to kick ass. My MC needs a partner, not a liability.

 

[Corty]

Are we talking about muscles or the "macho" type of stuff? Because if it's about appearance, I like my females not to be shredded and hard as the underside of a space shuttle. I'm into hugs and not into choking, getting my back broken. But that just me.

If its personality, I don't really care until they remain fun and believable and presented rationally and not just to fill up a checklist of some kind in the story.

 

[Iamnotabot]

Are we talking about muscles or the "macho" type of stuff? Because if it's about appearance, I like my females not to be shredded and hard as the underside of a space shuttle. I'm into hugs and not into choking, getting my back broken. But that just me.

If its personality, I don't really care until they remain fun and believable and presented rationally and not just to fill up a checklist of some kind in the story.

Hey i can gives hugs, but i'm also build like a brickhouse reaching 1m85cm soooooo......win some loses some i guess

 

[Deleted member 54065]

not into choking

Hey i can gives hugs, but i'm also build like a brickhouse reaching 1m85cm soooooo......win some loses some i guess

You sure? You're a bot!

 

[Corty]

Hey i can gives hugs, but i'm also build like a brickhouse reaching 1m85cm soooooo......win some loses some i guess

1.93 reporting in. Go for it, I'm open for hugs~

View attachment 17033

And that is sweat. I swear.

 

[georgelee5786]

Not that rare these days, I find

 

[ACertainPassingUser]

Nowadays? I believe it's not. Not only does it serve men's fantasies, it also has that effect of making the story appealing to 'modern' ladies.

Not that rare these days, I find

Yep.
It's not that rare.

It's rather concerning,

Those medieval stories of "strong female" feels more like they're not actual medieval people of medieval era.

I feel like they're just modern woke athletic females that go into Disneyland/old city attraction with their medieval costume and their sword, and play adventurer in the garden filled with attraction.

 

[HelloHound]

give me the dorito shaped woman and I will love her and we will live a good life out in the wilderness, where she catches bears for me to make blankets out of....

 

[SailusGebel]

build like a brickhouse reaching 1m85cm

 

[Ilikewaterkusa]

Hello!!!!
How do you view such types of characters making an appearance in high fantasy stories where the setting is similar to that of the medieval ages? Is it a rare thing to see such types of characters in high fantasy novels?

Kill them.

 

[georgelee5786]

Yep.

It's not that rare.



It's rather concerning,



Those medieval stories of "strong female" feels more like they're not actual medieval people of medieval era.



I feel like they're just modern woke athletic females that go into Disneyland/old city attraction with their medieval costume and their sword, and play adventurer in the garden filled with attraction.

I'm with him. #BringBackMasculineMen

 

[TheEldritchGod]

Hello!!!!
How do you view such types of characters making an appearance in high fantasy stories where the setting is similar to that of the medieval ages? Is it a rare thing to see such types of characters in high fantasy novels?

With my eyes.
No.

 

[Placeholder]

> Is it a rare thing to see such types of characters in high fantasy novels?

Summary
A number of women followed armies in the Middle Ages to supply the soldiers, and to support them by washing their clothes and caring for their wounds. Some women fought with the soldiers. Others accompanied their spouse or a friend. The presence of women on the Crusades is very commonly contrasted with their attendance in other wars, probably because they were attracted to a long expedition to visit the famous holy places as a pilgrimage rather than a short journey in their own land. Girls chose to follow their friends into distant places to look after them, and wives to accompany their men. Some women on these expeditions traveled with the army out of a desire for adventure and certain of them became famous as commanders of military units or of whole armies. A queen could be required by the circumstances even to conduct a war during the absence of her spouse on a Crusade or when he was imprisoned. A noblewoman could exercise her higher command by transferring the leadership of military operations to a more experienced commander. She could put on her own armor and personally command her soldiers in the everyday actions of warfare. She could defend the fortress in which she dwelled at the time of a siege. And there were many opportunities and much demand for women of loose morals during medieval hard times.
...

https://www.cambridge.org/core/book...ieval-armies/BACD6AE9E0C02A7F15F5749699511EFC

See also the three women here:

 

[Jemini]

Nowadays? I believe it's not. Not only does it serve men's fantasies, it also has that effect of making the story appealing to 'modern' ladies.

Older stories from earlier generations, however, might tell a different story. It's why the trope 'Damsel in Distress' became popular before, in the first place.

Personally? I hated writing weak characters. Hence, I write my ladies with skills and courage to kick ass. My MC needs a partner, not a liability.

See Lord of the Rings.

Note: Galadriel
Note: Eowyn

With the exception of the plot point in which Eowyn is frustrated about her inability to easily go into battle and win renown because the men around her are keeping her from doing so, either of those two roles could just as easily be filled by a male character and the story really would not have felt any different. Other than that mentioned point, every word and action by either of them would have been perfectly inline with things a male would do.

 

[StrongArm]

In my novel, the FL is a jacked former gladiator who isn't pretty. She's six foot tall and muscled, and covered in scars from fighting with men. In the novel she states that she understands that while she's muscled and strong, she will never be quite as athletic as her male counterparts, and that she tries to fight with her head, instead of rushing in head-on like a berserker, she fights dirty.

Its just a simple fact that men are more athletic than women. Rompin' Rhonda Rousey could probably kick MY ass, but she wouldn't have nothing on Chuck Liddel in his heyday.

The same is true for warriors in a fantasy or historical. How well you fight is mostly determined by how strong you are. Throw that "the bigger they are, the harder they fall" bullshit out the window. Anyone who knows anything about fighting knows that a big fuckin' guy can hit harder and faster, and a well muscled big guy can hit harder, faster, for longer. All while wearing heavy armor that they are capable of running around in because of their musculature.

You see this trope a lot in media, a big slow dumb guy loses to a little smart guy in a fight. But reality aint like that. Big guys aren't that slow. They are faster than skinny guys actually. Take a look at olympians who do the 30 meter dash, they are all built like line-backers. This is because their powerful muscles allow them to push off the ground harder making them faster.

In a fantasy, there needs to be magic or something to even the playing field so women can fight on equal terms with men.

In Game of Thrones there is Brienne of Tarth, she can fight with the men because she is simply a huge bitch. Arya stark doesn't really fight too much, she mostly sneaks and assassinates.

Women today can fight with men because we have guns. A bullet doesn't care if the one shooting it is male, female, old or young. It will kill you regardless of strength.

https://www.cambridge.org/core/book...ieval-armies/BACD6AE9E0C02A7F15F5749699511EFC

See also the three women here:

I had a crush on Vasquez when i was a kid. My favorite character, right next to bill paxton whining "game over man, game over!"

 

[LilRora]

If we're talking about medieval ages, then StrongArm above said everything that needed to be said.

If we're putting magic into the mix, then I'd say that women are, for whatever reason, either generic mages, assassins, archers, or the occasional swordmaster. Masculine-presenting women are extremely rare - even if you have physical fighters, they mostly fight physically because of magic, not pure physical strength achieved by muscle.

I personally like such characters, as long as they are not presented as an archetype of a hulk of a woman who had been convinced she will never be like other other pretty girls and is dramatic about it (bonus points if she is agonizing over men not looking at her). The other bad option is a woman who is so masculine she doesn't even know what a male organ is.

 

[StrongArm]

If we're talking about medieval ages, then StrongArm above said everything that needed to be said.

If we're putting magic into the mix, then I'd say that women are, for whatever reason, either generic mages, assassins, archers, or the occasional swordmaster. Masculine-presenting women are extremely rare - even if you have physical fighters, they mostly fight physically because of magic, not pure physical strength achieved by muscle.

I personally like such characters, as long as they are not presented as an archetype of a hulk of a woman who had been convinced she will never be like other other pretty girls and is dramatic about it (bonus points if she is agonizing over men not looking at her). The other bad option is a woman who is so masculine she doesn't even know what a male organ is.

Wow! You picked my plans for the character right out my head. (the self conscious thing about her looks, not the she-hulk part). My character is extremely self conscious about her looks, and will later agonize over this when the MC dates other women (its not a harem novel).

 

[Viator]

For me, it all depends on the culture of the fantasy world you are building from. Cultural pressure to conform is a real and present thing. For the most part we don't have very many historical depictions of such women in those times because women simply were not allowed and highly discouraged from any type of behavior that didn't fit the mold. If they existed, unless they occupied an essential place in history they were ignored, beaten down, and written out of historical record. The same thing goes on today to different groups of people that don't fit our collective current view of the boxes people should exist in. People haven't changed much...

My point is that it should be written well, with the struggles your character will go through for behaving out of the norm to be well thought out. Otherwise it's another kind of MC power dream that requires greater degrees of suspension-of-disbelief.

(Sorry for being long winded)