Your Opinion on Western/Westernized Cultivation Novels

[AYM]

Read title of post.

 

[TotallyHuman]

If we talk about "cultivation" then it don't work since it's inherently a genre with the roots in CN mythology and folklore.
If we talk power progression fantasy, then it's not cultivation

 

[NotaNuffian]

I feel like I am either reading a poorly written CN work that had been MTLed into english or something that definitely isn't cultivation novel pretending to be one.

 

[Jemini]

If we talk about "cultivation" then it don't work since it's inherently a genre with the roots in CN mythology and folklore.
If we talk power progression fantasy, then it's not cultivation

Have you ever cultivated a relationship with you close friends, or cultivated a skill like the ability to write well?

Those are actual terms used in the English lexicon to describe any form of high-effort project to gain something intangible. This language also exists in Chinese, and is the origin of the concept of personal cultivation. It came from the idea of cultivating a spiritual awareness or skill in the martial arts (as those two things tend to appear along side one another frequently, both IRL and also in martial arts novels.)

As such, no, it's not limited to Chinese mythology. Anyone who understands the true root of cultivation, that being that it's the nurturing and growing of something intangible, then it counts as cultivation.

It is true the concept of cultivation as a magical progression system came out of China, but the concept of cultivation actually exists well beyond the bounds of China. As such, any culture can write in the genre.

(Actual exposure to some form of Chinese or Japanese originating martial art would definitely help your ability to write in the genre though. I grew up in the Korean and Japanese martial arts culture, so I am rather well versed. (The Japanese especially has a heavy spiritual aspect to it. I'm wondering about if Korean has something like that too, I could have just missed it because the Tae-Kwon-Do I learned was rather heavily institutionalized and, as such, could have had a fair amount of it's origins stripped off.))

 

[Sleds]

If we talk about "cultivation" then it don't work since it's inherently a genre with the roots in CN mythology and folklore.
If we talk power progression fantasy, then it's not cultivation

It doesn't have to be roots in cn mythology and folklore to be cultivation, there a lot of cultivation stories that are not related to cn mythology or folklore. Western cultivation novel or a cultivation story remixed with foreign and setting are called Xuanhuan and one of the best cultivation story series is a Xuanhuan.

The first step for a story about cultivation is to have an energy in the universe of the story and people inside the said universe can use this energy to "cultivate" their bodies, growing them stronger.

In truth, there a lot of western fantasy stories who could be categorized as cultivation stories with how the mana are used in that said stories that is close to the term of cultivation.

Read title of post.

For me, it depend how it's done, some can be really good and like I previously said, if we took literally the term of cultivation, a lot of western fantasy stories are cultivation stories, like for exemple Suprem Magus who are quite popular on webnovel and are well writed (at least in my opinion)

 

[NotaNuffian]

It doesn't have to be roots in cb mythology and folklore to be cultivation, there a lot of cultivation stories that are not related to cn mythology or folklore. Western cultivation novel or a cultivation story remixed with foreign and setting are called Xuanhuan and one of the best cultivation story series is a Xuanhuan.

The first step for a story about cultivation is to have an energy in the universe of the story and people inside the said universe can use this energy to "cultivate" their bodies, growing them stronger.

In truth, there a lot of western fantasy stories who could be categorized as cultivation stories with how the mana are used in that said stories that is close to the term of cultivation.

For me, it depend how it's done, some can be really good and like I previously said, if we took literally the term of cultivation, a lot of western fantasy stories are cultivation stories, like for exemple Suprem Magus who are quite popular on webnovel and are well writed (at least in my opinion)

*raise hand*

Then how would you consider LitRPG and acts of genocide against things that provide the so-called EXP? From the understanding, it is a form of cultivation novel.

 

[Sleds]

*raise hand*

Then how would you consider LitRPG and acts of genocide against things that provide the so-called EXP? From the understanding, it is a form of cultivation novel.

for me it doesn't enter the cultivation novels, they don't use any energy given by the universe to grow stronger, it's the system in these universes who help them growing stronger by doing task or killing life.

 

[TotallyHuman]

It doesn't have to be roots in cb mythology and folklore to be cultivation, there a lot of cultivation stories that are not related to cn mythology or folklore. Western cultivation novel or a cultivation story remixed with foreign and setting are called Xuanhuan and one of the best cultivation story series is a Xuanhuan.

The first step for a story about cultivation is to have an energy in the universe of the story and people inside the said universe can use this energy to "cultivate" their bodies, growing them stronger.

In truth, there a lot of western fantasy stories who could be categorized as cultivation stories with how the mana are used in that said stories that is close to the term of cultivation.

For me, it depend how it's done, some can be really good and like I previously said, if we took literally the term of cultivation, a lot of western fantasy stories are cultivation stories, like for exemple Suprem Magus who are quite popular on webnovel and are well writed (at least in my opinion)

SH definition of cultivation:

Definition:
This tag is to be used preferably only for Chinese novels. Cultivation refers to the protagonist trying to acquire immortality and/or supreme power by the accumulation and usage of Qi. This tag is typical of the Xianxia genre.

as for "energy of the universe", it's too loose a definition and too many things can fit there

 

[Sleds]

I'm wondering about if Korean has something like that too, I could have just missed it because the Tae-Kwon-Do I learned was rather heavily institutionalized and, as such, could have had a fair amount of it's origins stripped off.

I remember reading some, Korean cultivation stories mostly use Ki/Qi/Chi, a few of them often use the four guardian beasts that you could find in China and Japan too.
The Azure Dragon, Cheongryong
The White Tiger, Baekho
The Vermilion Bird, Jujak
The Black Tortoise, Hyunmoo

 

[TotallyHuman]

Have you ever cultivated a relationship with you close friends, or cultivated a skill like the ability to write well?

Those are actual terms used in the English lexicon to describe any form of high-effort project to gain something intangible. This language also exists in Chinese, and is the origin of the concept of personal cultivation. It came from the idea of cultivating a spiritual awareness or skill in the martial arts (as those two things tend to appear along side one another frequently, both IRL and also in martial arts novels.)

As such, no, it's not limited to Chinese mythology. Anyone who understands the true root of cultivation, that being that it's the nurturing and growing of something intangible, then it counts as cultivation.

It is true the concept of cultivation as a magical progression system came out of China, but the concept of cultivation actually exists well beyond the bounds of China. As such, any culture can write in the genre.

(Actual exposure to some form of Chinese or Japanese originating martial art would definitely help your ability to write in the genre though. I grew up in the Korean and Japanese martial arts culture, so I am rather well versed. (The Japanese especially has a heavy spiritual aspect to it. I'm wondering about if Korean has something like that too, I could have just missed it because the Tae-Kwon-Do I learned was rather heavily institutionalized and, as such, could have had a fair amount of it's origins stripped off.))

But we aren't talking about the original meaning of the genre name and where it came from. We are talking about an already-established genre and another genre with similar key elements but different overall.
By this logic otherwise, self-help books, get rich books are all cultivation fantasy

 

[Sleds]

SH definition of cultivation:

It's not because its SH definition of cultivation that it is a fact all around the world. It's not for nothing that chinese authors use three different term when talking about cultivation story and don't use "cultivation" only.

as for "energy of the universe", it's too loose a definition and too many things can fit there

It's one of the thing that make a "cultivation" story, there other elements to add to it.

Here a longer description if you want :


The term "cultivation" refers to a specific subgenre often found in East Asian literature, particularly in Chinese, Korean, and Japanese genres like xianxia, wuxia, and cultivation novels. The cultivation genre typically features protagonists who embark on a journey of self-improvement, spiritual growth, and martial arts mastery to attain higher levels of power, often involving the cultivation of life force, energy, or inner strength.

Here are some key characteristics of cultivation stories:

1- Cultivation of Qi or Energy: Protagonists in cultivation stories often cultivate or refine a form of life force or energy (such as qi or ki) to enhance their physical, mental, and spiritual abilities.

2- Martial Arts and Combat: Martial arts play a central role in cultivation stories. Protagonists engage in various forms of combat, and their cultivation allows them to perform extraordinary feats and techniques.

3- Levels and Realms: Cultivation stories often feature a hierarchical system of levels or realms that characters progress through as they cultivate. Achieving higher levels brings increased power and abilities.

4- Spiritual Enlightenment: Cultivation is not just about physical strength; it often involves spiritual enlightenment and understanding the laws of the universe. Protagonists seek to achieve a state of harmony with the cosmos.

5- Magical Realms: The cultivation journey may lead characters to mystical realms, divine worlds, or parallel dimensions where they face challenges, encounter other cultivators, and uncover hidden truths.

6- Loyalty and Morality: Cultivation stories often explore themes of loyalty, friendship, and moral choices. Protagonists adhere to a code of ethics and may face dilemmas that test their principles.

7- Xianxia and Xuanhuan: These are subgenres closely related to cultivation. Xianxia (仙侠) focuses on immortals and transcending mortality, while Xuanhuan (玄幻) encompasses fantasy elements and a broader range of supernatural concepts.

 

[TotallyHuman]

It's not because its SH definition of cultivation that it is a fact all around the world. It's not for nothing that chinese authors use three different term when talking about cultivation story and don't use "cultivation" only.

I used sh definition because talking without a definition and saying some nebulous authors from some abstract world use the word like this is pointless and we are on shf.
Why is talking without definitions pointless? Because everybody will begin to use whatever they want to fit under the word. Many things from litrpg to self-help get rich books can be finangled to cultivation and without a definition, how are you supposed to argue against it? By saying that cultivation is whatever you want it to be. But since everybody will have different ideas about it, I went to the middle ground and used sh definition

 

[TsumiHokiro]

as for "energy of the universe", it's too loose a definition and too many things can fit there

The so called "energy of the universe" is so diverse in all the different kinds of "cultivation" Chinese novels I have read. Some of them come from the inside, others from the outside, others are born from the contact of beings. Natural, man made, celestial, infernal, etc

If you really read the genre, you will see that there is no closed definition of what "energy of the universe" is. Therefore, just about any energy of the universe could be considered cultivatable. Also, in Chinese, this genre is much more about what @Jemini has talked about than any other such non-sense as empowerment.

In fact, most of the time, empowerment comes with a better understanding of who you are, of who the people around you are, about the nature of the universe. The whole "I'm the young master and you shall die by my hands" is a trope that is often found on other Chinese novels as well.

 

[Sleds]

I used sh definition because talking without a definition and saying some nebulous authors from some abstract world use the word like this is pointless and we are on shf.
Why is talking without definitions pointless? Because everybody will begin to use whatever they want to fit under the word. Many things from litrpg to self-help get rich books can be finangled to cultivation and without a definition, how are you supposed to argue against it? By saying that cultivation is whatever you want it to be. But since everybody will have different ideas about it, I went to the middle ground and used sh definition

I just edited to add a description of it.

 

[TsumiHokiro]

I used sh definition because talking without a definition and saying some nebulous authors from some abstract world use the word like this is pointless and we are on shf.
Why is talking without definitions pointless? Because everybody will begin to use whatever they want to fit under the word. Many things from litrpg to self-help get rich books can be finangled to cultivation and without a definition, how are you supposed to argue against it? By saying that cultivation is whatever you want it to be. But since everybody will have different ideas about it, I went to the middle ground and used sh definition

Sure, I agree with you that if you don't limit a genre to something people might call whatever strikes their fancy "cultivation", however, there are also different purposes for different stories.
A self-help book will never be a cultivation story, but someone might misinterpret its content as a cultivation manual! Why? Because it just makes damn sense! I'm reading a book that is trying to teach me how to improve in life! (This is obviously to be interpreted with a great dose of sarcasm and scepticism.)

 

[TotallyHuman]

I just edited to add a description of it.

I read it and you outright narrowed it down to a subgenre of Asian novels yourself...

The so called "energy of the universe" is so diverse in all the different kinds of "cultivation" Chinese novels I have read. Some of them come from the inside, others from the outside, others are born from the contact of beings. Natural, man made, celestial, infernal, etc

If you really read the genre, you will see that there is no closed definition of what "energy of the universe" is. Therefore, just about any energy of the universe could be considered cultivatable. Also, in Chinese, this genre is much more about what @Jemini has talked about than any other such non-sense as empowerment.

In fact, most of the time, empowerment comes with a better understanding of who you are, of who the people around you are, about the nature of the universe. The whole "I'm the young master and you shall die by my hands" is a trope that is often found on other Chinese novels as well.

Indeed, the details on that are vague, but at the end of the day they are rooted in some form of CH (or rather that region of Asia) folklore and myths

A self-help book will never be a cultivation story, but someone might misinterpret its content as a cultivation manual! Why? Because it just makes damn sense! I'm reading a book that is trying to teach me how to improve in life! (This is obviously to be interpreted with a great dose of sarcasm and scepticism.)

Funny enough, I have no doubt it will not be hard to find a self-help book that goes hard on oriental mysticism and bullshit like that

 

[TsumiHokiro]

I read it and you outright narrowed it down to a subgenre of Asian novels yourself...

Indeed, the details on that are vague, but at the end of the day they are rooted in some form of CH (or rather that region of Asia) folklore and myths

A genre is a literary genre! It shouldn't be locked to only people of a selected culture! If you understand what the genre is about, anyone can write about it.
To restrict it to only Chinese novels, you are actually discriminating against any other author that might want to write something of the like.

 

[XMOS]

Eh...I'll read any cultivation story as long as the characters and plot are interesting. In the end we remember memorable characters not memorable names or cultures.

 

[Sleds]

I read it and you outright narrowed it down to a subgenre of Asian novels yourself...

Did you miss read or something? Cause the first phrase literally said often and not that it's specifically, just and only for Asian novels.

The term "cultivation" refers to a specific subgenre often found in East Asian literature, particularly in Chinese, Korean, and Japanese genres like xianxia, wuxia, and cultivation novels.

I underline it and make it in bold in case you still didn't see it.

Indeed, the details on that are vague, but at the end of the day they are rooted in some form of CH (or rather that region of Asia) folklore and myths

You are talking about the Xianxia genre here not just "Cultivation" genre.

 

[TotallyHuman]

A genre is a literary genre! It shouldn't be locked to only people of a selected culture! If you understand what the genre is about, anyone can write about it.
To restrict it to only Chinese novels, you are actually discriminating against any other author that might want to write something of the like.

I am not saying they can't write this and that in a way they want. I am saying that it will be a different genre.
If I make a smut comedy story but call it a psychological thriller, I won't be forbidden from writing it.