Your Opinion on Western/Westernized Cultivation Novels

[Sleds]

For me
what piss me off in the same reasoning vein

is that authors/novels/logic in general/i dont know who-where

when someone is far superior to a genius, they use the word "monster"
The term isnt the problem. Its the ignorant characters that fear or misuse the term that piss me off.
Its like someone inventing a term or invention and the dumbass masses, misuse the thing.

AND
"talent"
I hate the fact, people/characters are arrogant and call "cultivation root" as "talent"
Fck off i want to say to them
ITS JUST DNA/RANDOM RNG BODY
If it was LINKED TO SOUL itself i would understand, but the fact its just body/dna. Piss me off, because it exude LAZYNESS because its "COOLER"
analogy : "gg" is annoying, bc mainstream and also misused often. Cant see "hard fight" "well played" or "hard game = hg"

For me it's more the bloodline and that in most stories, they all want to have a dragon bloodline. Just upgrade your human bloodline to be stronger than dragon don't be a pussy...

 

[Tsuru]

For me it's more the bloodline and that in most stories, they all want to have a dragon bloodline. Just upgrade your human bloodline to be stronger than dragon don't be a pussy...

now you mention it, i didnt think about it
you are right xD

Its bc of their mythology about "dragon" being the most holy animal
so humans are animals so that makes to covert the strongest blood
in western culture is also same, with "bathing in blood"

OFFTOPIC =>
ps : ONCE, i saw a very very rare moment where the MC/author criticized BOTH western dragon form AND eastern one (true chad author)
ps ps : I saw 1month ago there was a fanfic Cyberpunk 2077, in synopsis :: MC keeping human body criticize people for being so focused on augments but the potential of human body is far better (+ system cheat hypocrisy)
ps ps ps : In a fav novel, doctor mention this old fact, that computer chips are nothing compared to the computing power of human brain

 

[Jemini]

But we aren't talking about the original meaning of the genre name and where it came from. We are talking about an already-established genre and another genre with similar key elements but different overall.
By this logic otherwise, self-help books, get rich books are all cultivation fantasy

So am I. If you want to say it's the internal energy gathering that makes it a cultivation world novel, then western cultivation novels emulate it easily. If you want to say it's the personal growth aspect, then western novels actually tend to do that one BETTER than CN novels. If it's about the mythology, I think you need to look into the Cultivation world a little deeper before you try to claim that one.

CN cultivation novels are divided into 3 primary categories. Xianxia, Wuxia, and Xuhuan. There is also something called the "Mirim world." Mirim world is a very specific setting and has the strictest regulations in regards to how it works. You absolutely need to have your social structure and the sects all follow the precise rules in order for it to be considered Mirim world.

Xianxia and Xuhuan have some specification on the power system. Xianxia focuses on becoming immortal via your cultivation, and tends to have a lot of specificity in the power structure. Xuhuan has a lot more focus on being out in the world and engaging with spiritual things, Journey to the West is likely the single most famous work in this category. There is also a lot of overlap with the Mirim world setting when writing in one of these styles (ESPECIALLY in the case of Xianxia,) so this could be the source of a lot of your confusion.

Wuxia is basically the bucket that all other cultivation world novels fall into, including the western ones. Wuxia is basically any cultivation novel that doesn't follow the rules of Xianxia or Mirim world. There are many CN cultivation novels in the Wuxia category as well, one famous example would be Warlock in the Magus World.

Honestly, I really don't see a lot of difference between Wuxia cultivation worlds and most of the western cultivation world novels out there. They all easily fit into the Wuxia category without trouble.

 

[MouseDestruction]

Its nothing original, even ancient people thought the body/mind/spirit were all interlinked. If you cultivated the body you would have a clearer mind and a healthier spirit etc. The idea of Qi might be Asian in origin but the idea of magical energies in the body that you can improve doesn't really seem to be original to anywhere in particular. Sure it has its specifics which are original, but the general idea is nothing special.

 

[Tsuru]

Read title of post.

In fact
the problem is more accentuated with MANHUA

FUCK ALL THIS SHITTY CAPITALISTS THAT DESTROYED MANHUAS

My fav novel PALADIN DAD
turned into garbage quality in manhua because they try to copy "jp style" and "KR style" in a very very veryyyyyyyyy bad way

Wtf with MC looking like a cold handsome KR model
WTF WITH DAUGHTER LOOKING THE LOLI DRAGON OF MAID-DRAGON JP SERIES !?????

MC should look like a common chinese man! Like a taller/buffier teenager that was rush-forced to grow up to resist the cruelty of being fantasy-world/alone but always keeping his youthfulness but also being tired of life bc of living long and wanting to go home! NOT BE A PERFECT-MALE-GOD THAT LOOK LIKE A KR-CEO !
HECK HE IS LIKE COPY PASTE OF SOLO-LEVEL PROTAG !

Daughter should be timid (orphanage), nadeshiko-like, AND NORMAL BLACK HAIR LIKE A CHINESE PERSON
=

(<novel cover)
(heck now i think about it writing it, she should be similar to Yui of SAO)

PS (monologue) : AT LEAST IF THEY(capitalists) COPY STUFF, DONT MIX TOGETHER BULLSHIT CHINESE ELEMENTS LIKE THE CHINESE BUNS IN HER HAIRSTYLE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

PS PS : THIS NOVEL WAS RANKED NUMBER 5-7 URBAN CATEGORY FOR YEAR(S) IN QIDIAN !!!!!! And that is how they repay the author !
(btw author is dad himself, wrote other previous dad series, and once mentioned he hope his daughter will enjoy his series when she have grown up)

 

[Jemini]

Are you going to tell me that litrpg can only be those that people killing monsters for rpg? What if they get XP not from killing people but from reading books? Or crafting things? What if it was from going smut with someone else?
LitRPG is more about the details through which the author explains their novel power up mechanics! You could very well make a cultivation LitRPG, where you would be very explicit and make everything so detailed, so explicit as if it was a GAME instead of people without absolute characteristics called "status" or anything of the sort.

Funny thing, I'm actually writing a cultivation world set story right now. I also have plans for a sequel series to the current series once I'm done, which will be a LitRPG. The idea is that the sequel is set thousands of years after the first one, and in that time the protagonists from the 1st series have formed a godly organization which has created and maintains "the system," and "the system" was created as an aid to speed and guide the cultivation of mortals so they can gain power more easily (but it also functions a little like training wheels and actually makes it harder to take the final step into godhood.)

 

[Sleds]

So am I. If you want to say it's the internal energy gathering that makes it a cultivation world novel, then western cultivation novels emulate it easily. If you want to say it's the personal growth aspect, then western novels actually tend to do that one BETTER than CN novels. If it's about the mythology, I think you need to look into the Cultivation world a little deeper before you try to claim that one.

CN cultivation novels are divided into 3 primary categories. Xianxia, Wuxia, and Xuhuan. There is also something called the "Mirim world." Mirim world is a very specific setting and has the strictest regulations in regards to how it works. You absolutely need to have your social structure and the sects all follow the precise rules in order for it to be considered Mirim world.

Xianxia and Xuhuan have some specification on the power system. Xianxia focuses on becoming immortal via your cultivation, and tends to have a lot of specificity in the power structure. Xuhuan has a lot more focus on being out in the world and engaging with spiritual things, Journey to the West is likely the single most famous work in this category. There is also a lot of overlap with the Mirim world setting when writing in one of these styles (ESPECIALLY in the case of Xianxia,) so this could be the source of a lot of your confusion.

Wuxia is basically the bucket that all other cultivation world novels fall into, including the western ones. Wuxia is basically any cultivation novel that doesn't follow the rules of Xianxia or Mirim world. There are many CN cultivation novels in the Wuxia category as well, one famous example would be Warlock in the Magus World.

Honestly, I really don't see a lot of difference between Wuxia cultivation worlds and most of the western cultivation world novels out there. They all easily fit into the Wuxia category without trouble.

There some thing who are wrong in your explanation but above all you have exchanged the term Wuxia and Xuanhuan in your explanation or you misinterpret their meaning maybe?

 

[Sagacious_Punk]

now you mention it, i didnt think about it
you are right xD

Its bc of their mythology about "dragon" being the most holy animal
so humans are animals so that makes to covert the strongest blood
in western culture is also same, with "bathing in blood"

OFFTOPIC =>
ps : ONCE, i saw a very very rare moment where the MC/author criticized BOTH western dragon form AND eastern one (true chad author)
ps ps : I saw 1month ago there was a fanfic Cyberpunk 2077, in synopsis :: MC keeping human body criticize people for being so focused on augments but the potential of human body is far better (+ system cheat hypocrisy)
ps ps ps : In a fav novel, doctor mention this old fact, that computer chips are nothing compared to the computing power of human brain

If you like the concept of the unlimited potential of the human body/spirit/soul, then A Requiem for Homo Sapiens by David Zindell might be right up your alley.

It's a sci-fi trilogy from the 90s that still holds up extremely well and has practically zero zeerust. It's also one of the most seminal stories about transhumanism (spiritual transhumanism, at that). Highly recommend it.

Regards,
Sagacious

 

[Tsuru]

If you like the concept of the unlimited potential of the human body/spirit/soul, then A Requiem for Homo Sapiens by David Zindell might be right up your alley.

It's a sci-fi trilogy from the 90s that still holds up extremely well and has practically zero zeerust. It's also one of the most seminal stories about transhumanism (spiritual transhumanism, at that). Highly recommend it.

Regards,
Sagacious

Thx
but not really interested ^_^b

analogy:
I am more like a bard knowing bunch of legends thx to visiting lot of places (novels), and not bc i mentioned 3 songs about killing dragons that i want to kill one xD
(the cyberpunk fanfic for example i mentioned, i just saw synopsis while scrolling in raw website i frequent, and well, lot of good series but this one was bad looking bc synopsis mention stuff like sword control and stuff, probably too-op system. Of course it could be good as synopsis are often trolling exagerated and be good inside but meh)

 

[Jemini]

There some thing who are wrong in your explanation but above all you have exchanged the term Wuxia and Xuanhuan in your explanation or you misinterpret their meaning maybe?

Possibly, I'm mostly basing it on what I've seen out of stories that have been given those labels in practice. It's possible I may have been thrown off by miss-labeling.

 

[BearlyAlive]

"Cultivation" stories are lies! They never cultivate anything! They don't farm, they don't raise mushrooms and they don't grow microorganisms. They don't even act cultivated! Instead, those worlds descend to the level of kindergarten kids fighting over toys...

Western stories in those settings are superior just because not everyone is a murder hobo. I mean society couldn't work like it does in CN novels when everyone goes on a murder spree the moment someone as much as looks at them the wrong way. Those worlds would be dead and desolate during the hundreds of thousands of millions of billions of years those cultivation worlds somehow have existed before the MC goes murdering everything...

My (not so) hot is still that cultivation novels are just Chinese bootleg LitRPGs with a shiny coat of (murder hobo) paint to confuse the consumer.

 

[Octopal]

Farming novel

 

[laccoff_mawning]

I don't really know what "westernising" a cultivation novel looks like. Though I don't really care as long as the worldbuilding and plot is good. I'd like some effort put into the stories I read, and some thought process as well.

My most recent nitpick is how the term "Immortal" is used. "Immortal" means "not mortal", as in , "you can't die" or something similar. Yet some cultivation novels have immortals dying. Worse, they make a big deal about it as if thats the big conclusion they made which thinking about how to write a cultivation novel- that immortals die! If they die, they aren't immortal, obviously.

It's a small thing, but it really annoys me. Just use words like they are meant to be used.

Edit: I was meant to ask, what sort of stereotypical changes do "western" cultivation novels make compared to the "originals"?

 

[Sleds]

My most recent nitpick is how the term "Immortal" is used. "Immortal" means "not mortal", as in , "you can't die" or something similar. Yet some cultivation novels have immortals dying. Worse, they make a big deal about it as if thats the big conclusion they made which thinking about how to write a cultivation novel- that immortals die! If they die, they aren't immortal, obviously.

Immortal mean you didn't age or decay through passing years, it doesn't mean you can't die at all, the word are used right. The immortal live forever since they don't have a lifespan limit, but if someone cut their heads, they die, obviously.

Immortal and Invincible are two different things, if you're Immortal you won't die from age, if you invincible you won't die from having your body pierced by millions of swords, but you body still age and you will finaly die from your body decaying due to age.

Edit: I was meant to ask, what sort of stereotypical changes do "western" cultivation novels make compared to the "originals"?

Most "Westernised" like the title said, who are called Xuanhuan, have modern world or futurist world with mecha, spaceship, etc... Other have fantasy races, like elf, dwarf, angel, etc... Some have different sense of naming for the energy in the same story, like a planet call it qi, another mana, and another lifeforce.

 

[laccoff_mawning]

Immortal mean you didn't age or decay through passing years, it doesn't mean you can't die at all, the word are used right.

I have never seen immortal defined like this before, nor used like this before.

 

[Sleds]

I have never seen immortal defined like this before, nor used like this before.

It's the litteral definition of immortal, even in mythology. Just look at the nordic mythology, wasn't all gods there was immortal? But in the end wasn't they all died at the ragnarok?
If that could help to understand the difference between immortal and invincible. Immortal mean you can't die by anything coming from inside your body, like decay. Invincible mean you can't die from anything outside of your body, that don't include the decaying due to age.

You can also found characters like superman for exemple who are both Immortal and Invincible (except the green kryptonite in case of superman)

 

[TsumiHokiro]

It's the litteral definition of immortal, even in mythology. Just look at the nordic mythology, wasn't all gods there was immortal? But in the end wasn't they all died at the ragnarok?
If that could help to understand the difference between immortal and invincible. Immortal mean you can't die by anything coming from inside your body, like decay. Invincible mean you can't die from anything outside of your body, that don't include the decaying due to age.

You can also found characters like superman for exemple who are both Immortal and Invincible (except the green kryptonite in case of superman)

Those are different things. You are confusing with Agelessness: someone who does not age. There is the common adjective, but there is also that same definition. Someone who is Immortal would be someone who, regardless of what happens to them, does not die. Immortal beings who are not invulnerable or ageless usually have a very bad ending: that of losing their bodies, and/or suffering for all eternity, or growing so old that their bodies do not let them do anything else.
The Nordic Gods are not only Ageless, but also Immortal. Such definition is often said prior to the tale, where they would explain how exactly a God works. Later, to simplify the tales, people would simply evoke a single characteristic of their Godhood, be it their Immortality, since they did not die, their Agelessness, due to them not ageing, their Invulnerability, in case such a God really is invulnerable.

 

[Sleds]

Those are different things. You are confusing with Agelessness: someone who does not age. There is the common adjective, but there is also that same definition. Someone who is Immortal would be someone who, regardless of what happens to them, does not die. Immortal beings who are not invulnerable or ageless usually have a very bad ending: that of losing their bodies, and/or suffering for all eternity, or growing so old that their bodies do not let them do anything else.
The Nordic Gods are not only Ageless, but also Immortal. Such definition is often said prior to the tale, where they would explain how exactly a God works. Later, to simplify the tales, people would simply evoke a single characteristic of their Godhood, be it their Immortality, since they did not die, their Agelessness, due to them not ageing, their Invulnerability, in case such a God really is invulnerable.

I'm not confusing it with ageless. Immortals do not experience natural death. They may not succumb to illnesses, old age, or other factors that typically lead to the end of life.
Their not invulnerable, it's just that most fiction give Immortal multiple power and one of them who are often see are super regeneration at which point that the body of the immortal in such story regenerate faster than it could get cut or destroyed, ending to what you said in most stories, having them suffer for eternity from torture or being imprisoned forever.

 

[TsumiHokiro]

I'm not confusing it with ageless. Immortals do not experience natural death. They may not succumb to illnesses, old age, or other factors that typically lead to the end of life.
Their not invulnerable, it's just that most fiction give Immortal multiple power and one of them who are often see are super regeneration at which point that the body of the immortal in such story regenerate faster than it could get cut or destroyed, ending to what you said in most stories, having them suffer for eternity from torture or being imprisoned forever.

You see, you're explaining a lot of other characteristics that your so-called "Immortals" have. And not what the word "immortal" means…

 

[Sleds]

You see, you're explaining a lot of other characteristics that your so-called "Immortals" have. And not what the word "immortal" means…

Immortal refers to a being or entity that is considered to live indefinitely.
Edit :

You see, you're explaining a lot of other characteristics that your so-called "Immortals" have. And not what the word "immortal" means…

If you prefer the oxford language definition of it : the ability to live forever; eternal life.