Adventurer's Guild [AGSA] Adventurer's Guild Sky Archipelago - OOC Room

Nahrenne

Pure and Innocent Maiden~
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Shoujo is love, shoujo is life, you're too prejudiced and can't see the wonders of shoujo~
I came to that conclusion after reading many shoujo.
'-'
In then end, almost every time, the female was weak-willed around the ML.
The female MC also often ended up being a Mary Sue, which irked me, too.
=w=

It's bad if I ended up shipping the male characters together instead of the MC with the ML before I just stopped reading shoujo.

But everyone's free to like - or not like - their genres of choice. I just don't particularly enjoy shoujo anymore.
'-'

X
 

Reborn_Cat

A lazy cat pretending to be human
Joined
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Messages
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I came to that conclusion after reading many shoujo.
'-'
In then end, almost every time, the female was weak-willed around the ML.
The female MC also often ended up being a Mary Sue, which irked me, too.
=w=

It's bad if I ended up shipping the male characters together instead of the MC with the ML before I just stopped reading shoujo.

But everyone's free to like - or not like - their genres of choice. I just don't particularly enjoy shoujo anymore.
'-'

X
Actually, shoujo just means it's catered towards young girls. Take a manga like gakuen babysitters. It has shoujo as a tag but the romance aspect is like the 17th priority of the story and is quite minor.
 

AliceShiki

Magical Girl of Love and Justice
Joined
Dec 23, 2018
Messages
2,268
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I came to that conclusion after reading many shoujo.
'-'
In then end, almost every time, the female was weak-willed around the ML.
The female MC also often ended up being a Mary Sue, which irked me, too.
=w=

It's bad if I ended up shipping the male characters together instead of the MC with the ML before I just stopped reading shoujo.

But everyone's free to like - or not like - their genres of choice. I just don't particularly enjoy shoujo anymore.
'-'

X
I mean... You're just kinda reading the wrong kinds of shoujo? o.0

Like... Cardcaptor Sakura shows nothing of what you mentioned, for example? Or well, most CLAMP mangas in general...

Love so Life, Jigoku no Enra, Bambi to Dhole are some other examples I can think of that don't really fit into this at all...

Feels like you're basically judging the genre by the most generic and most bland shoujos out there in the market... >.>

Like, if I were to do that with BL, I could just say that BL is basically about smutty stories with abusive relationships, a rapist love interest and a protagonist that is super feminine, submissive, and that lets the love interest drag him around as he sees fit... And well, that doesn't really portray BL at all? It's just the bad generic stuff that is like that.

Similarly, if I were to judge GL by R-18 doujinshis, I could say that GL is just a genre of porn aimed at males that doesn't care about character development at all... Which is about as far from what GL is as it can get.

So uhn... I get disliking the boring generic shoujos, I just don't get generalizing it as if those were the works that represented the genre.
 

fyrre

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 9, 2020
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6
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I mean... You're just kinda reading the wrong kinds of shoujo? o.0

Like... Cardcaptor Sakura shows nothing of what you mentioned, for example? Or well, most CLAMP mangas in general...

Love so Life, Jigoku no Enra, Bambi to Dhole are some other examples I can think of that don't really fit into this at all...

Feels like you're basically judging the genre by the most generic and most bland shoujos out there in the market... >.>

Like, if I were to do that with BL, I could just say that BL is basically about smutty stories with abusive relationships, a rapist love interest and a protagonist that is super feminine, submissive, and that lets the love interest drag him around as he sees fit... And well, that doesn't really portray BL at all? It's just the bad generic stuff that is like that.

Similarly, if I were to judge GL by R-18 doujinshis, I could say that GL is just a genre of porn aimed at males that doesn't care about character development at all... Which is about as far from what GL is as it can get.

So uhn... I get disliking the boring generic shoujos, I just don't get generalizing it as if those were the works that represented the genre.
Generalizing is bad!!!! :blob_hmph:
 

Nahrenne

Pure and Innocent Maiden~
Joined
Jan 2, 2019
Messages
940
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133
I mean... You're just kinda reading the wrong kinds of shoujo? o.0

Like... Cardcaptor Sakura shows nothing of what you mentioned, for example? Or well, most CLAMP mangas in general...

Love so Life, Jigoku no Enra, Bambi to Dhole are some other examples I can think of that don't really fit into this at all...

Feels like you're basically judging the genre by the most generic and most bland shoujos out there in the market... >.>

Like, if I were to do that with BL, I could just say that BL is basically about smutty stories with abusive relationships, a rapist love interest and a protagonist that is super feminine, submissive, and that lets the love interest drag him around as he sees fit... And well, that doesn't really portray BL at all? It's just the bad generic stuff that is like that.

Similarly, if I were to judge GL by R-18 doujinshis, I could say that GL is just a genre of porn aimed at males that doesn't care about character development at all... Which is about as far from what GL is as it can get.

So uhn... I get disliking the boring generic shoujos, I just don't get generalizing it as if those were the works that represented the genre.
Isn't calling something the wrong kind of something also generalising, though?
Using such language as 'most bland' and 'most generic' also displays prejudice, no?

I actually liked Card Captor Sakura when I was a child but find her character quite annoying now.

In other words, I'm too cynical to enjoy shoujo now. Regardless of whether it's 'generic', or not.

X
 

AliceShiki

Magical Girl of Love and Justice
Joined
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Messages
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Isn't calling something the wrong kind of something also generalising, though?
Using such language as 'most bland' and 'most generic' also displays prejudice, no?
I mean, I could also just say "Your comments only apply to poorly written shoujo" if you prefer. Since that's a bit more objective and stuff (though well, quality of written works is a pretty subjective thingy too I guess... But there is some measurement of objectiveness in it too).
I actually liked Card Captor Sakura when I was a child but find her character quite annoying now.

In other words, I'm too cynical to enjoy shoujo now. Regardless of whether it's 'generic', or not.
I have 0 clue how those two sentences correlate, but you do you~
Heh, that only applies when someone doesnt want others to shit on a tag/genre. And it is conveniently ignored when they want to do so instead ~
And that's why it's better to judge stories on a case by case basis instead of trying to write off a whole tag/genre! ^^)/

Though well, everyone has their own personal taste that already gets rid of a bunch of tags/genres... Like how I don't like reading fight-related stuff much, so I ignore everything that is related to martial arts... But well, being aware of your taste is different to judging the quality of something~
 

Nahrenne

Pure and Innocent Maiden~
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Messages
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I mean, I could also just say "Your comments only apply to poorly written shoujo" if you prefer. Since that's a bit more objective and stuff (though well, quality of written works is a pretty subjective thingy too I guess... But there is some measurement of objectiveness in it too).
You're judging something I've read without even knowing what it was and already calling it 'poorly written shoujo'.
=w=
In other words, because my view on shoujo doesn't correlate with yours, you've determined that everything I've read must have been bad, or of poor quality.
How about you try being more objective with your posts, instead of passive-aggressively degrading the other person's opinion with pejorative language?
 

AliceShiki

Magical Girl of Love and Justice
Joined
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Messages
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You're judging something I've read without even knowing what it was and already calling it 'poorly written shoujo'.
=w=
In other words, because my view on shoujo doesn't correlate with yours, you've determined that everything I've read must have been bad, or of poor quality.
How about you try being more objective with your posts, instead of passive-aggressively degrading the other person's opinion with pejorative language?
I'm judging it by how you described it though? *tilts head*

If you describe a story by a bunch of bad tropes that typically make up a bad story, isn't it a given that I'm going to assume it's a bad story?

Like, I'm not judging all shoujos you read as bad, but...
In then end, almost every time, the female was weak-willed around the ML.
The female MC also often ended up being a Mary Sue, which irked me, too.
I'm 99% sure all the stories that fit into this description are pretty terrible. If I was looking for reviews of a given story and someone gave this kind of description to the story, I'd definitely decide to not read it... Because well... A story like that is just garbage usually.

I don't really care about your view of shoujo, and I don't care if you don't read shoujo anymore, but if you say that you dislike a genre, and then say that you don't read it anymore because the stories you read had some garbage tropes... I'm obviously going to assume that the stories you disliked were terrible.

Basically... When you say this:
Wow, that's...definitely a shoujo MC there.
This is why I don't read shoujo...
After reading this:
ML-kun steps on her hair, and her first reaction was "Senpai noticed me, I'm never going to cut my hair again!"
You're basically generalizing all shoujo MCs as pretty bad characters that are willing to forgive everything the ML does (or rather, that actually get happy being with the ML regardless of what he does) regardless of context just because he is the ML...

And well, sorry, but that's a pretty nonsensical argument.

I don't care if you dislike shoujo or if you don't read shoujo. I just get annoyed with people talking about bad character traits and then trying to apply it to a whole genre... That just doesn't make any sense. Each story is its own story and each character is its own character. Saying that you don't read shoujo because of a bad character trait in a MC is silly, because not all shoujo MCs have those traits.

It's kinda like how people say that all harem novels are just wish-fulfillment trophy collection stories, or how all BL has abusive relationships, or how all GL is aimed at horny men, or how all shounen stories are about the power of friendship, or how all JP stories have a beta ML that is unable to do anything on his own... They're dumb generalizing arguments that don't reflect the reality of the genres (or in the last case, about Male Protagonist stories of a whole country).


... In other words, I'm not degrading your opinion, I'm saying that you used a bad argument for why you disliked shoujo.
I actually liked Card Captor Sakura when I was a child but find her character quite annoying now.
Like, I have nothing against this. This is fine. You have the right to dislike a given character, just like how you have the right to dislike a given genre... That doesn't suddenly make any argument about the genre itself sensible though.
 

Nahrenne

Pure and Innocent Maiden~
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Messages
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I'm judging it by how you described it though? *tilts head*

If you describe a story by a bunch of bad tropes that typically make up a bad story, isn't it a given that I'm going to assume it's a bad story?

Like, I'm not judging all shoujos you read as bad, but...

I'm 99% sure all the stories that fit into this description are pretty terrible. If I was looking for reviews of a given story and someone gave this kind of description to the story, I'd definitely decide to not read it... Because well... A story like that is just garbage usually.

I don't really care about your view of shoujo, and I don't care if you don't read shoujo anymore, but if you say that you dislike a genre, and then say that you don't read it anymore because the stories you read had some garbage tropes... I'm obviously going to assume that the stories you disliked were terrible.

Basically... When you say this:

After reading this:

You're basically generalizing all shoujo MCs as pretty bad characters that are willing to forgive everything the ML does (or rather, that actually get happy being with the ML regardless of what he does) regardless of context just because he is the ML...

And well, sorry, but that's a pretty nonsensical argument.

I don't care if you dislike shoujo or if you don't read shoujo. I just get annoyed with people talking about bad character traits and then trying to apply it to a whole genre... That just doesn't make any sense. Each story is its own story and each character is its own character. Saying that you don't read shoujo because of a bad character trait in a MC is silly, because not all shoujo MCs have those traits.

It's kinda like how people say that all harem novels are just wish-fulfillment trophy collection stories, or how all BL has abusive relationships, or how all GL is aimed at horny men, or how all shounen stories are about the power of friendship, or how all JP stories have a beta ML that is unable to do anything on his own... They're dumb generalizing arguments that don't reflect the reality of the genres (or in the last case, about Male Protagonist stories of a whole country).


... In other words, I'm not degrading your opinion, I'm saying that you used a bad argument for why you disliked shoujo.

Like, I have nothing against this. This is fine. You have the right to dislike a given character, just like how you have the right to dislike a given genre... That doesn't suddenly make any argument about the genre itself sensible though.
I will amend one thing, then:
Almost every time in romance shoujo.

As for the reference to ohoko's post, it clearly has some form of romance in it, thus my comment was in response to it.

I've never generalised shoujo as a whole. Just my experience of it, which has mostly been the romance side. The ones that didn't have romance mostly didn't interest me at all because I found the MC's annoying.

As for your other comments on other genres, why bring that up when I never made a generalisation? I based my opinion on my experience and have already amended by saying I meant romance shoujo. I never said the entire genre was all that.

With that, I don't want to talk about this anymore cos this isn't a thread for discussing shoujo but for OOC roleplay talk.
 

ohko

tilda~ me~ home~ ♪
Joined
Dec 23, 2018
Messages
346
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What if you like these so-called "bad" shoujo and "bad" BL? :blob_no: :blob_no: :blob_no: Yandere bad-boy MLs are in fact a form of an "ideal" just as much as sparkly vampires that want to prey on you are idealized love interests.

I like bad things.

For me, shoujo is characterized by a certain degree of idealism, either in the world overall or the love interests present in the story. I tend not to classify myself in the shoujo writer/reader category because ohko = pessimist, and I basically can't write a story unless at least one character has a failed marriage and several people are cheating on each other because the relationships aren't working. :blob_uwu:

I'm an adult, so I do josei! :blob_paint:
 

Nahrenne

Pure and Innocent Maiden~
Joined
Jan 2, 2019
Messages
940
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What if you like these so-called "bad" shoujo and "bad" BL? :blob_no: :blob_no: :blob_no: Yandere bad-boy MLs are in fact a form of an "ideal" just as much as sparkly vampires that want to prey on you are idealized love interests.

I like bad things.

For me, shoujo is characterized by a certain degree of idealism, either in the world overall or the love interests present in the story. I tend not to classify myself in the shoujo writer/reader category because ohko = pessimist, and I basically can't write a story unless at least one character has a failed marriage and several people are cheating on each other because the relationships aren't working. :blob_uwu:

I'm an adult, so I do josei! :blob_paint:
*huggles*

X
 
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