Do Americans feel like they’re main characters?

[BenJepheneT]

being just across the channel from satan's rejects who love themselves more than they hate everyone else.

i can't tell if you're referencing the english or the french and I like to keep it that way

 

[Paul_Tromba]

As an American, I don't believe myself to be an MC because I think everyone has the chance to be an MC. However, I think that a lot of the more patriotic ones think of themselves as an MC or the center of the universe.

 

[SakeVision]

Looking at them, I think they do.

 

[Deeprotsorcerer]

The nationalistic ones do. They've always existed as this big, often toxic bloc of true believers who live, fight, and die by the flag because of political indoctrination and run away nationalism, but you can say that about almost any country. It's more of a "kind of person that lives in a country" thing than a "country full of this kind of people" thing, though American imperialism and ethnocentrism has earned us a rather rude, self-entitled image.

 

[Lloyd]

The nationalistic ones do. They've always existed as this big, often toxic bloc of true believers who live, fight, and die by the flag because of political indoctrination and run away nationalism, but you can say that about almost any country. It's more of a "kind of person that lives in a country" thing than a "country full of this kind of people" thing, though American imperialism and ethnocentrism has earned us a rather rude, self-entitled image.

This is what liberals actually believe? Lol. Literally all media and almost all politicians are anti-nationalism, who are sponsored or owned by billionaires btw. You have literally been brainwashed by constant media propaganda to hate nationalism for reasons you don't even understand. Ethbocentralism is how literally every nation acted for thousands of years wtf are you talking about.

 

[SilvCrimBlac]

the French are expendable,

As a self-proclaimed French-hater, can confirm this is indeed true.

 

[BenJepheneT]

okay lads pack it, the thread's gone.

inb4 tony locks it

 

[SilvCrimBlac]

Also, never understood how nationalism is a bad thing. I mean, why shouldn't you be proud of your country? It's only asshats that consider any nationalism as inherently bad rather than just saying that an overabundance of nationalism is bad.

 

[Zirrboy]

Also, never understood how nationalism is a bad thing. I mean, why shouldn't you be proud of your country? It's only asshats that consider any nationalism as inherently bad rather than just saying that an overabundance of nationalism is bad.

Dk about you, but I think the former is called patriotism.

 

[Deeprotsorcerer]

This is what liberals actually believe? Lol. Literally all media and almost all politicians are anti-nationalism, who are sponsored or owned by billionaires btw. You have literally been brainwashed by constant media propaganda to hate nationalism for reasons you don't even understand. Ethbocentralism is how literally every nation acted for thousands of years wtf are you talking about.

Alright, first, chill your head please, this isn't a personal attack, merely an observation on historical trends and the perception of US citizens.

On your first point, Fox news would disagree with you, military expenditures in the movie industry would disagree with you, and Christian Nationalism which still holds sway over a large swath of Evangelicals in the US would disagree with you.

It's not sponsorships and the top 10%ers that I'm talking about here, everyone knows they're out for themselves, I also never mentioned that I hated "nationalism" which you're probably conflating with "patriotism" there is a significant difference. Ethnocentrism as an idea can't even be applied to "how every nation acted for years" because it's a concept that influences principles rather than a policy itself and exists on a spectrum, just as globalism, legalism, and moralism does. Different presidents and political blocs were effected by it to different degrees; take the youth of the WW2 Era US vs the Vietnam Era US for example.

I do indeed think nationalism can lead to inane choices, but not because I've been "brainwashed" bud. A hardcore nationalist may jump off a cliff and shoot their wife in the face for their country, no questions asked. A patriot will only do the same if they know their country asked for the right reasons according to an established set of principles.

Maybe I'm not the one that doesn't understand what they're talking about here. But I understand that the issue may just be a conflict of terminology.

 

[Discount_Blade]

No,

Dk about you, but I think the former is called patriotism.

Nationalism means you identify as a citizen of (insert nation here), and feel that the needs of your nation is more important than others. Anyone who is patriotic, also support nationalism to varying degrees. And anyone who says they aren't a nationalist of their country, answer me this question: IF the world is about to be flooded, or starved out or etc....except for one country, would you chose it to be your country that isn't starved out/flooded/etc...? If so, you just exhibited nationalism. You put your countries interests above others.

Anyone who is a patriot of their nation, also exhibits nationalism. It's retarded how people seem to consider nationalism as a bad thing.

Definition of nationalism btw: "identification with one's own nation and support for its interests, especially to the exclusion or detriment of the interests of other nations"


Also, I also see nothing wrong with putting the interests and needs of your own country above others. I mean, Poland sure as hell isn't going to do anything for me. Neither is Germany, Hungary, France, Austria, Mali, or any other nation. Only the U.S., so why wouldn't I prefer that my nation got its way over others? I benefit from it. Otherwise, I lose, or gain nothing at all. Nationalism is a good thing. It's only bad when leaders who are in a position to turn it into a military arm, begin to weaponize it. And even if its weaponized, I'd still say it depends on the circumstances as to whether it is a negative thing or not.

 

[lnv]

Do Americans feel like they’re main characters?

*shrug* Everyone is a main character of their own life.

 

[Deeprotsorcerer]

Definition of nationalism btw: "identification with one's own nation and support for its interests, especially to the exclusion or detriment of the interests of other nations"

Nail on the head.

Note the exclusion of any conditionals and the "especially to the exclusion or detriment of the interests of other nations" bit. Nationalism has historically been used to exclude demographics within a country by declaring the X aren't worth as much as citizens, or are less loyal, or are a threat, see Executive Order 9066, Jim Crow, and the Chinese Exclusion Act. Nationalistic fervor has time and again trampled upon the rights that countries swore to protect, in order to "protect" itself, in the above cases, that pretense wasn't even true, even if nationalists believed it to be so.

Patriotism, or at least, the common connotations of patriotism when faced with that of nationalism, is nationalism with a brain. Instead of "My country is great" vs "I will preserve what's great about my country, and strive to make it greater".

In order of intensity and moral suspension:

Patriotism > Nationalism > Jingoism

At least by my reading.

 

[Lloyd]

This is what liberals actually believe? Lol. Literally all media and almost all politicians are anti-nationalism, who are sponsored or owned by billionaires btw. You have literally been brainwashed by constant media propaganda to hate nationalism for reasons you don't even understand. Ethbocentralism is how literally every nation acted for thousands of years wtf are you talking about.

Just a good example, but they aren't painting american flags on the missles

Alright, first, chill your head please, this isn't a personal attack, merely an observation on historical trends and the perception of US citizens.

On your first point, Fox news would disagree with you, military expenditures in the movie industry would disagree with you, and Christian Nationalism which still holds sway over a large swath of Evangelicals in the US would disagree with you.

It's not about sponsorships and the top 10%ers that I'm talking about here, everyone knows they're out for themselves, I also never mentioned that I hated "nationalism" which you're probably conflating with "patriotism" there is a significant difference. Ethnocentrism as an idea can't even be applied to "how every nation acted for years" because it's a concept that influences principles rather than a policy itself and exists on a spectrum, just as globalism, legalism, and moralism does. Different presidents and political blocs were effected by it to different degrees; take the youth of the WW2 Era US vs the Vietnam Era US for example.

I do indeed think nationalism can lead to inane choices, but not because I've been "brainwashed" bud. A hardcore nationalist may jump off a cliff and shoot their wife in the face for their country, no questions asked. A patriot will only do the same if they know their country asked for the right reasons according to an established set of principles.

Maybe I'm not the one that doesn't understand what they're talking about here. But I understand that the issue may just be a conflict of terminology.

If you think Fox news is nationalist then you have completely lost you mind. The only person on fox that could be described as nationalist is Tucker. Have you been loving under a rock? The military is not nationalist, they are painting pride flags and blm logos on bombs before they drop them on innocent kids in the middle east for years now. There are a lot of christian nationalists, but they are constantly suppressed by the government and big tech.
You are not immune to propaganda.
You don't even know what you are talking about.

 

[Zirrboy]

No,

Nationalism means you identify as a citizen of (insert nation here), and feel that the needs of your nation is more important than others. Anyone who is patriotic, also support nationalism to varying degrees. And anyone who says they aren't a nationalist of their country, answer me this question: IF the world is about to be flooded, or starved out or etc....except for one country, would you chose it to be your country that isn't starved out/flooded/etc...? If so, you just exhibited nationalism. You put your countries interests above others.

Anyone who is a patriot of their nation, also exhibits nationalism. It's retarded how people seem to consider nationalism as a bad thing.

Definition of nationalism btw: "identification with one's own nation and support for its interests, especially to the exclusion or detriment of the interests of other nations"


Also, I also see nothing wrong with putting the interests and needs of your own country above others. I mean, Poland sure as hell isn't going to do anything for me. Neither is Germany, Hungary, France, Austria, Mali, or any other nation. Only the U.S., so why wouldn't I prefer that my nation got its way over others? I benefit from it. Otherwise, I lose, or gain nothing at all. Nationalism is a good thing. It's only bad when leaders who are in a position to turn it into a military arm, begin to weaponize it. And even if its weaponized, I'd still say it depends on the circumstances as to whether it is a negative thing or not.

Except all of what you said seems founded on self interest rather than the interest of your nation.

And Blanc said nationalism was about pride of one's nation, which your own provided definition differs from.
Be or like whatever you want, but the terms mean different things, even if there's overlap in practice.

It's like saying that being suicidal and depression are the same thing.
If there's one, the other is never far, but that doesn't mean they're identical

 

[SailusGebel]

 

[Discount_Blade]

Nationalism has historically been used to exclude demographics within a country by declaring the X aren't worth as much as citizens, or are less loyal, or are a threat, see Executive Order 9066, Jim Crow, and the Chinese Exclusion Act. Nationalistic fervor has time and again trampled upon the rights that countries swore to protect, in order to "protect" itself, in the above cases, that pretense wasn't even true, even if nationalists believed it to be so.

Going to have to agree to disagree here. This isn't nationalism. This is ethnocentrism. Jim Crow is just a terrible example. Disliking blacks has nothing to do with nationalism. That is ethnocentrism. Nothing about any race of specific groups within a single country has anything to do with nationalism. Even Hitler's attack on Jews wasn't in regards to nationalism as people like to claim. It was based on ethnocentrism.

 

[Lloyd]

Nail on the head.

Note the exclusion of any conditionals and the "especially to the exclusion or detriment of the interests of other nations" bit. Nationalism has historically been used to exclude demographics within a country by declaring the X aren't worth as much as citizens, or are less loyal, or are a threat, see Executive Order 9066, Jim Crow, and the Chinese Exclusion Act. Nationalistic fervor has time and again trampled upon the rights that countries swore to protect, in order to "protect" itself, in the above cases, that pretense wasn't even true, even if nationalists believed it to be so.

Patriotism, or at least, the common connotations of patriotism when faced with that of nationalism, is nationalism with a brain. Instead of "My country is great" it's "I will preserve what's great about my country, and strive to make it greater".

In order of intensity and moral suspension:

Patriotism > Nationalism > Jingoism

At least by my reading.

Nationalism is far more moral than patriotism.

 

[Discount_Blade]

Except all of what you said seems founded on self interest rather than the interest of your nation.

Agree to disagree. Wanting my nation to prosper better than others is still nationalism, regardless of whether it's a self-indulgence/interest or not. Also, how in the world would it not be in the interests of my nation to be the only one not flooded or starved out, as per my prior example? Patriotism is simply being proud of what your nationality is and enjoying being in that specific nation. Nationalism is the same thing, just one step forward, meaning you are proud to be a member of your nation, and want it to be better than others. It's like the Olympics. You want your nation to win the most gold medals and the other nations to lose. Prime example of nationalism.

 

[Lloyd]

Except all of what you said seems founded on self interest rather than the interest of your nation.

And Blanc said nationalism was about pride of one's nation, which your own provided definition differs from.
Be or like whatever you want, but the terms mean different things, even if there's overlap in practice.

It's like saying that being suicidal and depression are the same thing.
If there's one, the other is never far, but that doesn't mean they're identical

Nationalism has nothing to do with pride. Its simply wanting to take care of your nation above all else. I think of it as an extension of putting your family first, then community, then nation. Nationalism is about love for your family, your community, and your people, but not necessarily anti-everyone else. You simply look after your people first.