EXP, Skill, Stats and Leveling

[NotaNuffian]

The relationship between class (job), skill and stats.

This is me using everyone who bothered to read and reply this post for some answers, thank you for reading if you do first and foremost. Last year I came up with a litrpg idea but dropped it after thinking that it will either be too complex and ass-shoving like Randidly or too watered and wasted...

forum.scribblehub.com

EXP and Levels

There are multiple ways of earning EXP afaik, like killing, crafting and the last is doing quests for NPCs. If there are more methods, do tell. But what if I remove the "doing quests for NPCs" method of earning EXP, will players still enjoy going speaking to the people of the land? Of course...

forum.scribblehub.com

This is abit of continuation of the threads above.

Experience Point (EXP) can be earned by any means, from doing a fetch quest to murdering masses. What I want to focus today is the effects of EXP on skills, stats and levels.

To start, I point towards the Legendary Mechanic's system of an EXP pool (where did this concept came from?) that allows players to freely allocate the EXP into the things they want, which is just two things; level up and increase skill level.

The first one is obvious, level up for job change, level up for race change and level up for more unused stats points (Ability Points). The second is not so clear for me as I think I stopped seeing Han Xiao using the EXP for skills after he is in space for a long time and joined the empire. Instead in the work, it seems like using the skill grants you mastery and if you hate making another dagger, you can go grind with monster massacre and use the EXP there to increase mastery instead. There has been little to no info on whether attacking skills' mastery will grow while you gain EXP from monster kill, thus a bonus increase should you put the EXP into mastery.

I have issues with such a leveling system though, because it feels like Dark Souls' soul system and I am always iffy about not automatically leveling up immediately as you hit the cap and instead you have to check your EXP pool and micromanage it. Of course, Dark Souls is using the EXP as a currency as well, so that is that.

The second interesting system in my head is from Stop, Friendly Fire with the horse fucker MC increasing his level by capping the stats. In his world, the only way to increase one's level is by hitting the max (hard) cap of all stats and you level up. Skill mastery improvement is done through repetitions.

This concept is fresh but since I have forgotten how they get their stats to grow, I am a bit stuck on explaining how EXP works in this case.

So my new (plagerized) idea is to have an EXP pool for the players, capped at their respective levels to incentivise them to enact fiscal policy (spend not save) and in each leveling they get unused AP. Or they can spend said EXP on mastery that has no hard cap, but soft ones like their stats.

Then I recall KR WNs' shitty treatment to grant stats points for those who grind (I blame LMS' Weed) and thought, "why not copy SFF's leveling method too?" It ended up a hotchpotch screw in the head as I thought that leveling up with stats and getting more AP (compared to the standard method of leveling) is a bit dumb, but I also don't have any idea on how to reward players who choose the harder route of leveling, because the amount spent on stats leveling is greater than conventional leveling.

I like the feeling of players gaining stats, just not so high until a low level player has more AP than a high level player (KR BS) and hence a hard cap that promotes level up. There are of course two main routes for the players to choose to try and keep balance; either pick the conventional leveling method and have mediocre stats or go the hard mode method of grinding until you have the best stat for each level.

Skill mastery is the same, either use the pool and/or grind.

Any ideas? Thanks.

 

[Layenlml]

The relationship between class (job), skill and stats.

This is me using everyone who bothered to read and reply this post for some answers, thank you for reading if you do first and foremost. Last year I came up with a litrpg idea but dropped it after thinking that it will either be too complex and ass-shoving like Randidly or too watered and wasted...

forum.scribblehub.com

EXP and Levels

There are multiple ways of earning EXP afaik, like killing, crafting and the last is doing quests for NPCs. If there are more methods, do tell. But what if I remove the "doing quests for NPCs" method of earning EXP, will players still enjoy going speaking to the people of the land? Of course...

forum.scribblehub.com

This is abit of continuation of the threads above.

Experience Point (EXP) can be earned by any means, from doing a fetch quest to murdering masses. What I want to focus today is the effects of EXP on skills, stats and levels.

To start, I point towards the Legendary Mechanic's system of an EXP pool (where did this concept came from?) that allows players to freely allocate the EXP into the things they want, which is just two things; level up and increase skill level.

The first one is obvious, level up for job change, level up for race change and level up for more unused stats points (Ability Points). The second is not so clear for me as I think I stopped seeing Han Xiao using the EXP for skills after he is in space for a long time and joined the empire. Instead in the work, it seems like using the skill grants you mastery and if you hate making another dagger, you can go grind with monster massacre and use the EXP there to increase mastery instead. There has been little to no info on whether attacking skills' mastery will grow while you gain EXP from monster kill, thus a bonus increase should you put the EXP into mastery.

I have issues with such a leveling system though, because it feels like Dark Souls' soul system and I am always iffy about not automatically leveling up immediately as you hit the cap and instead you have to check your EXP pool and micromanage it. Of course, Dark Souls is using the EXP as a currency as well, so that is that.

The second interesting system in my head is from Stop, Friendly Fire with the horse fucker MC increasing his level by capping the stats. In his world, the only way to increase one's level is by hitting the max (hard) cap of all stats and you level up. Skill mastery improvement is done through repetitions.

This concept is fresh but since I have forgotten how they get their stats to grow, I am a bit stuck on explaining how EXP works in this case.

So my new (plagerized) idea is to have an EXP pool for the players, capped at their respective levels to incentivise them to enact fiscal policy (spend not save) and in each leveling they get unused AP. Or they can spend said EXP on mastery that has no hard cap, but soft ones like their stats.

Then I recall KR WNs' shitty treatment to grant stats points for those who grind (I blame LMS' Weed) and thought, "why not copy SFF's leveling method too?" It ended up a hotchpotch screw in the head as I thought that leveling up with stats and getting more AP (compared to the standard method of leveling) is a bit dumb, but I also don't have any idea on how to reward players who choose the harder route of leveling, because the amount spent on stats leveling is greater than conventional leveling.

I like the feeling of players gaining stats, just not so high until a low level player has more AP than a high level player (KR BS) and hence a hard cap that promotes level up. There are of course two main routes for the players to choose to try and keep balance; either pick the conventional leveling method and have mediocre stats or go the hard mode method of grinding until you have the best stat for each level.

Skill mastery is the same, either use the pool and/or grind.

Any ideas? Thanks.

System change did something for that on the job/class part, the more you grind the rarer choices you get depending on your stats and mastery of skills, usually they are fitting to what you do with and with growth clases and rarity being so important that the mc rivals amost everyone due to having a legendary one(+ other MC things of course.


Stats per level is a common thing so experience and higher stats is the advantage of the conventional route in that case

 

[Reborn_Cat]

This system is something that is kinda inspired by multiple sources is still a WIP, but Levels refer to a persons potential, leveling up doesn't raise ones stats or skill but instead raise the limits of the which the stats can be trained upto. For eg: a level 1 can train his stats upto a max of 10 per stat, while a level 2 can train it upto a max of 20 per stat. It works by accumulating something called essence in your body which can either slowly be cultivated using special techniques or quickly by absorbing the essence of monsters defeated in a dungeon. The cultivating part is slow but safe while the dungeon part is fast but risky. The accumulated essence then evolves your body into one with higher potential, hence you can have higher stats. You don't need to max out your stats to level up, meaning its theoretically possible to have a lv 100 with each stat as 1, hence if you don't train then even a level one with maxed out stats can beat a level 10 who hasn't trained his stats at all. Also every 50 levels every person faces a personal bottleneck in which they have to do certain tasks in order level up further and those tasks are different for each person. This makes it a fair bit realistic and more fleshed out in my opinion

 

[NotaNuffian]

System change did something for that on the job/class part, the more you grind the rarer choices you get depending on your stats and mastery of skills, usually they are fitting to what you do with and with growth clases and rarity being so important that the mc rivals amost everyone due to having a legendary one(+ other MC things of course.


Stats per level is a common thing so experience and higher stats is the advantage of the conventional route in that case

I have not think of rare stats or class or race in my example over here as I am thinking of the standard MMORPG where everyone should be in the same race Human, there is no class here as @CupcakeNinja had spoken about how restricting it is and FFXIV and similar MMO have shown impressive results that allows the players to interchange "classes" (jobs/ roles... basically healer, tanks and DPS) with ease.

In my example, there is only one race, no class difference and the only determining factor is actually stats and skill masteries. The equipment is another story that I will touch later. The same with gaining AP with each level up.

This system is something that is kinda inspired by multiple sources is still a WIP, but Levels refer to a persons potential, leveling up doesn't raise ones stats or skill but instead raise the limits of the which the stats can be trained upto. For eg: a level 1 can train his stats upto a max of 10 per stat, while a level 2 can train it upto a max of 20 per stat. It works by accumulating something called essence in your body which can either slowly be cultivated using special techniques or quickly by absorbing the essence of monsters defeated in a dungeon. The cultivating part is slow but safe while the dungeon part is fast but risky. The accumulated essence then evolves your body into one with higher potential, hence you can have higher stats. You don't need to max out your stats to level up, meaning its theoretically possible to have a lv 100 with each stat as 1, hence if you don't train then even a level one with maxed out stats can beat a level 10 who hasn't trained his stats at all. Also every 50 levels every person faces a personal bottleneck in which they have to do certain tasks in order level up further and those tasks are different for each person. This makes it a fair bit realistic and more fleshed out in my opinion

Let me try and sum your point up:
1. Leveling up only Increases your hard caps on stats (and amount of EXP pooled, maybe?)
2. You decided to throw in xianxia shit when what I trying to LitRPG for an MMORPG. Maybe it can be for Xianxia too but as a Player, do you really want to sit in the lotus position for decades just to grind for EXP?
3. You never specify how to increase stats...
4. You even throw in heavenly tribulation...

Hi brother, I actually did tried to make such a system you describe two years ago (still in my docs and serving as inspiration) and the conclusion I can come up with is this, it is too BS-ingly taxing. Throwing realism into a LitRPG system makes numbers weird, throwing xianxia cultivation shit into the cesspool that is the "realistic LitPRG" is like lighting fire into the pit; it will be a smoky eyesore and smells terrible.

Your idea of leveling up only increases the hard caps is understandable, yet it does not give incentives to those who forgo just maxing out their stats before leveling.

How about this? Stats leveling should not be called that as maxing out the basic stats (four as an example taken from MapleStory, Strength, Dexterity, Intelligence, Luck) will NOT level up the player, but rather for their next level up, they will get a higher hard caps for their maxed out stats instead for those who choose not to max out their stats. Meaning one can max out one stat like strength and level up from level 1 to 2, while most stats' hard cap increases from 10 to 20, strength's hard cap increases from 10 to 25 (a 25% boost).

This makes leveling up NOT granting free APs to be "fair", in the sense that a level up's job is only to increase hard caps and provides a challenge to the players to spend the EXP on stats as well on skills.

 

[Reborn_Cat]

2. You decided to throw in xianxia shit when what I trying to LitRPG for an MMORPG. Maybe it can be for Xianxia too but as a Player, do you really want to sit in the lotus position for decades just to grind for EXP?

Not exactly cultivating for years, cause there is no raising lifespan stuff plus in the story most people who are strong will use the monster slaying method as it is faster. The cultivation part is more like what ordinary people use who don't want to face any danger or go to dungeons in order to Lv up.

4. You even throw in heavenly tribulation...

Also the cultivation part is severely bastardized and not much like chinese cultivation and it's the only part taken from xianxia stuff, So no heavenly tribulation cause its stupid. Also cultivating is the only thing taken from there so there won't be some spoilt young masters whose grandpa will come to beat you up cause you beat him up, because the grandpa will have common sense and would throw out his back if he tried

How about this? Stats leveling should not be called that as maxing out the basic stats (four as an example taken from MapleStory, Strength, Dexterity, Intelligence, Luck) will NOT level up the player, but rather for their next level up, they will get a higher hard caps for their maxed out stats instead for those who choose not to max out their stats. Meaning one can max out one stat like strength and level up from level 1 to 2, while most stats' hard cap increases from 10 to 20, strength's hard cap increases from 10 to 25 (a 25% boost).

It's a good Idea but it would make the stat calculation a good bit more complicated as it goes on

3. You never specify how to increase stats...

Anyways this is still a WIP and still needs a lot of work and some of the stats also have to be changed in order to mesh well with the system, meaning intelligence and wisdom are completely scraped and are replaced be mana capacity and mana control

 

[GodlessEmperor]

The relationship between class (job), skill and stats.

This is me using everyone who bothered to read and reply this post for some answers, thank you for reading if you do first and foremost. Last year I came up with a litrpg idea but dropped it after thinking that it will either be too complex and ass-shoving like Randidly or too watered and wasted...

forum.scribblehub.com

EXP and Levels

There are multiple ways of earning EXP afaik, like killing, crafting and the last is doing quests for NPCs. If there are more methods, do tell. But what if I remove the "doing quests for NPCs" method of earning EXP, will players still enjoy going speaking to the people of the land? Of course...

forum.scribblehub.com

This is abit of continuation of the threads above.

Experience Point (EXP) can be earned by any means, from doing a fetch quest to murdering masses. What I want to focus today is the effects of EXP on skills, stats and levels.

To start, I point towards the Legendary Mechanic's system of an EXP pool (where did this concept came from?) that allows players to freely allocate the EXP into the things they want, which is just two things; level up and increase skill level.

The first one is obvious, level up for job change, level up for race change and level up for more unused stats points (Ability Points). The second is not so clear for me as I think I stopped seeing Han Xiao using the EXP for skills after he is in space for a long time and joined the empire. Instead in the work, it seems like using the skill grants you mastery and if you hate making another dagger, you can go grind with monster massacre and use the EXP there to increase mastery instead. There has been little to no info on whether attacking skills' mastery will grow while you gain EXP from monster kill, thus a bonus increase should you put the EXP into mastery.

I have issues with such a leveling system though, because it feels like Dark Souls' soul system and I am always iffy about not automatically leveling up immediately as you hit the cap and instead you have to check your EXP pool and micromanage it. Of course, Dark Souls is using the EXP as a currency as well, so that is that.

The second interesting system in my head is from Stop, Friendly Fire with the horse fucker MC increasing his level by capping the stats. In his world, the only way to increase one's level is by hitting the max (hard) cap of all stats and you level up. Skill mastery improvement is done through repetitions.

This concept is fresh but since I have forgotten how they get their stats to grow, I am a bit stuck on explaining how EXP works in this case.

So my new (plagerized) idea is to have an EXP pool for the players, capped at their respective levels to incentivise them to enact fiscal policy (spend not save) and in each leveling they get unused AP. Or they can spend said EXP on mastery that has no hard cap, but soft ones like their stats.

Then I recall KR WNs' shitty treatment to grant stats points for those who grind (I blame LMS' Weed) and thought, "why not copy SFF's leveling method too?" It ended up a hotchpotch screw in the head as I thought that leveling up with stats and getting more AP (compared to the standard method of leveling) is a bit dumb, but I also don't have any idea on how to reward players who choose the harder route of leveling, because the amount spent on stats leveling is greater than conventional leveling.

I like the feeling of players gaining stats, just not so high until a low level player has more AP than a high level player (KR BS) and hence a hard cap that promotes level up. There are of course two main routes for the players to choose to try and keep balance; either pick the conventional leveling method and have mediocre stats or go the hard mode method of grinding until you have the best stat for each level.

Skill mastery is the same, either use the pool and/or grind.

Any ideas? Thanks.

I'm dead tired, so I might've not really understood things correctly.
I really like the rpg system of the game elona. You can either level up by doing quests and kill mobs like a pleb. Or you can grind your skills to the extreme. Each skill has a stat as its base. For example lockpicking is DEX, so every few levels of lockpicking you gain a stat in DEX. Levels also raise you stats but you have a potential in each stat, the more you level the harder it gets to get stats from leveling up, unless you get some potion that raises your potential or something.
EXP can be gained from any action, fighting, quests, killing, traveling, reading.
Every race has different initial stats and fighting a race stronger than yours that has at least your level give you bonus points you can use to improve your character in different ways.
I had a character at level 50 that was stronger than any of my older level 100+ characters because I put some smart grinding in him and chose a snail as my race. I did have to throw trash at enemies and try and run away somehow at first though, still worth it. Leveling got really hard at higher levels and just wasn't worth it for my lazy ass.

 

[cryum]

I really like systems like OSO, where base stats are semi-hidden properties from equipped skills/classes. You raise stats by improving the related skills, but if you start from scratch you take a power loss. You can theoretically minmax for certain builds, but then you reduce the number of skills being improved to maintain that build.

It also makes it more organic to regulate power creep, and make level 100 not be 1000 times stronger than a level 1.

 

[NotaNuffian]

I really like systems like OSO, where base stats are semi-hidden properties from equipped skills/classes. You raise stats by improving the related skills, but if you start from scratch you take a power loss. You can theoretically minmax for certain builds, but then you reduce the number of skills being improved to maintain that build.

It also makes it more organic to regulate power creep, and make level 100 not be 1000 times stronger than a level 1.

???

What do you mean start from scratch? Do you lose the respective skills with a job change?

 

[cryum]

???

What do you mean start from scratch? Do you lose the respective skills with a job change?

If you switch your skills out for a completely different weapon/element/etc, you don't carry over much from the old loadouts. Depending on the system, evolving your skills to advanced versions also drops your stats but increases level caps.

 

[NotaNuffian]

If you switch your skills out for a completely different weapon/element/etc, you don't carry over much from the old loadouts. Depending on the system, evolving your skills to advanced versions also drops your stats but increases level caps.

So the base stats are fluid in this case? Affected by not just leveling up but also by your own loadout... Jesus the mental gymnastics on juggling stats will make people scratch their head.

Iirc OSO can have PK, especially MPK? Would you lose a level when death like in standard MMORPGs? Would you drop stats then?

 

[cryum]

So the base stats are fluid in this case? Affected by not just leveling up but also by your own loadout... Jesus the mental gymnastics on juggling stats will make people scratch their head.

Iirc OSO can have PK, especially MPK? Would you lose a level when death like in standard MMORPGs? Would you drop stats then?

I don't think total levels give stats in most of these systems. They don't describe death penalties very much, but I imagine it's stops before losing a level or something.