Isekai is old as heck

[SternenklarenRitter]

So I noticed that some fellows are talking as if the "isekai" genre was a fad, some shiny new gimmick that is near the end of its ability to keep attention. But I would like to take a moment so we can remember that "I find myself suddenly in a new and strange and magical world!" is not a new idea. Anyone ever watch Digimon? Spirited away? Played a game called Disgaea? There's western examples too. Quite famously, "The Wizard of Oz". "Alice in wonderland". "The Sunless City" from 1905. "Dante's Inferno" anyone? Does the Bible count? Okay no, let's respectfully leave the Bible on the shelf and consider our opinions on it private. Does anyone know of any uncontroversial examples from Mediterranean antiquity? There's all the different realms connected by Yggdrasil from Norse mythology too.

 

[Lloyd]

Who the hell cares?

 

[Deleted member 54065]

We talked about this in the forum before, but I offer my opinion what sets apart isekai from the old, "otherworld" classics.

As an isekai writer myself, I think what sets the genre apart is the trope that the main character uses his/her knowledge and conveniences of the contemporary modern world (at most cases, Earth Knowledge and tech) to solve the problems he/she encounters.

For short, it answers an old question of mine from when I was a kid: "What happens when an M16 rifle and an APC are used against a dragon? And would a missile fare well against magic spells?"

Feel free to dispute or add on my take, it's only an opinion anyway.

 

[GlassRose]

Folk tales about the fae and their realm, and I'm pretty sure in either Hinduism or in some Buddhist beliefs (or both) there are other worlds that one might be reincarnated in.
Check out Miscellaneous Myths: Pwyll, Prince of Dyved - YouTube

 

[Paul_Tromba]

Technically Peter Pan, Narnia, Celtic mythology, Irish mythology, Welsh mythology, Norse mythology have isekai elements or focuses.

 

[NotaNuffian]

We talked about this in the forum before, but I offer my opinion what sets apart isekai from the old, "otherworld" classics.

As an isekai writer myself, I think what sets the genre apart is the trope that the main character uses his/her knowledge and conveniences of the contemporary modern world (at most cases, Earth Knowledge and tech) to solve the problems he/she encounters.

For short, it answers an old question of mine from when I was a kid: "What happens when an M16 rifle and an APC are used against a dragon? And would a missile fare well against magic spells?"

Feel free to dispute or add on my take, it's only an opinion anyway.

You as a child asked about modern military arnaments against mythical creatures?

Wow.

Wow.

 

[Deleted member 54065]

You as a child asked about modern military arnaments against mythical creatures?

Wow.

Wow.

Yep, it's my fantasy when I was in 5th Grade (was 9-10 y.o). See, back then, Saving Private Ryan was released. And because I read a lot, I was already exposed to wars, and equipments to make war...even though I'm not an American. I also watched that movie, "Patton", with my father, so it added to the curiosity.

I also read fantasy novels before, so it got me thinking, "What if the modern world and the old, fantasy worlds collide?"

That's why Zero no Tsukaima clicked on me. It answered my question from childhood.

 

[Indicterra]

Of course, Reincarnation is an old concept, what is new is an entirely new genre was created, popularised and standardized surrounding it.

If I make it simply

At first, it was just a tag, for eg- (weak to strong, misunderstanding etc)

Now it has become a new genre eg (Romance, fantasy and horror)

 

[J_Chemist]

Yep, it's my fantasy when I was in 5th Grade (was 9-10 y.o). See, back then, Saving Private Ryan was released. And because I read a lot, I was already exposed to wars, and equipments to make war...even though I'm not an American. I also watched that movie, "Patton", with my father, so it added to the curiosity.

I also read fantasy novels before, so it got me thinking, "What if the modern world and the old, fantasy worlds collide?"

That's why Zero no Tsukaima clicked on me. It answered my question from childhood.

Actually, I thought of it a lot myself too when I was a youngin'. Zero is one of my favorite animes because of that very topic. And now that you've mentioned it, I'm going to binge it tomorrow.

 

[Deleted member 54065]

Actually, I thought of it a lot myself too when I was a youngin'. Zero is one of my favorite animes because of that very topic. And now that you've mentioned it, I'm going to binge it tomorrow.

ALL FOUR SEASONS YOOOOOOOOO!!!

 

[Theirl]

u forgot dungeon and dragons the old cartoon and guardians of the flame if im not wrong is a isekai too

 

[J_Chemist]

ALL FOUR SEASONS YOOOOOOOOO!!!

 

[SternenklarenRitter]

We talked about this in the forum before, but I offer my opinion what sets apart isekai from the old, "otherworld" classics.

As an isekai writer myself, I think what sets the genre apart is the trope that the main character uses his/her knowledge and conveniences of the contemporary modern world (at most cases, Earth Knowledge and tech) to solve the problems he/she encounters.

For short, it answers an old question of mine from when I was a kid: "What happens when an M16 rifle and an APC are used against a dragon? And would a missile fare well against magic spells?"

Feel free to dispute or add on my take, it's only an opinion anyway.

"A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court" -Mark Twain, 1889. This one takes "modern" civil engineering to the feudal system, bringing democracy and toilets to a medieval world.

 

[Jemini]

We talked about this in the forum before, but I offer my opinion what sets apart isekai from the old, "otherworld" classics.

As an isekai writer myself, I think what sets the genre apart is the trope that the main character uses his/her knowledge and conveniences of the contemporary modern world (at most cases, Earth Knowledge and tech) to solve the problems he/she encounters.

For short, it answers an old question of mine from when I was a kid: "What happens when an M16 rifle and an APC are used against a dragon? And would a missile fare well against magic spells?"

Feel free to dispute or add on my take, it's only an opinion anyway.

Ok, so first off, "Isekai" is literally the Japanese word for "otherworld." I don't just mean that they have equivalent meanings. "Sekai" is the actual Japanese word for "world." The "I" prefex doesn't quite translate to English as smoothly, it doesn't have a one to one English equivalent, but "otherworld" is a prefectly valid interpretation.

Second, the term was used predating the modern era, for classics such as the famous story of Urashima Tarō who was taken to the undersea dragon palace after rescuing a sea turtle.

In regards to the story of Urashima Tarō, his story has strong parallels to some classic otherworld English fairy tales such as The King of Elfland's Daughter.

So, yeah. Isekai is literally the Japanese word for "otherworld." They have used the term literally for centuries, and the history of Isekai is also just as long as the history of Western otherworld fantasies. There really is no difference between the two.

On that subject, otherworld fantasies were actually the standard for fantasy lore up until Tolkein's The Hobbit arrived on the scene and changed all that by creating Middle Earth, which broke new ground by creating a fantasy world without introducing it through the eyes of someone from our world.

Ironically, the fad was the abandoning of the fish out of water dynamic in favor of giving us the POV of a native of the world. Now, it seems the fad is dying and proper otherworld fantasy has made a resurgence. The strange thing is that, for some reason, the west has adopted the Japanese word for otherworld and we've stopped using our own perfectly servicable native word for it.

 

[BigBadBoi]

We talked about this in the forum before, but I offer my opinion what sets apart isekai from the old, "otherworld" classics.

As an isekai writer myself, I think what sets the genre apart is the trope that the main character uses his/her knowledge and conveniences of the contemporary modern world (at most cases, Earth Knowledge and tech) to solve the problems he/she encounters.

For short, it answers an old question of mine from when I was a kid: "What happens when an M16 rifle and an APC are used against a dragon? And would a missile fare well against magic spells?"

Feel free to dispute or add on my take, it's only an opinion anyway.

So with that logic wizard of oz is an isekai

 

[Bluebery]

That time I got reincarnated with a skill to turn water into wine. Now I can finally make my harem of 12.

 

[Deleted member 54065]

Ok, so first off, "Isekai" is literally the Japanese word for "otherworld." I don't just mean that they have equivalent meanings. "Sekai" is the actual Japanese word for "world." The "I" prefex doesn't quite translate to English as smoothly, it doesn't have a one to one English equivalent, but "otherworld" is a prefectly valid interpretation.

Second, the term was used predating the modern era, for classics such as the famous story of Urashima Tarō who was taken to the undersea dragon palace after rescuing a sea turtle.

In regards to the story of Urashima Tarō, his story has strong parallels to some classic otherworld English fairy tales such as The King of Elfland's Daughter.

So, yeah. Isekai is literally the Japanese word for "otherworld." They have used the term literally for centuries, and the history of Isekai is also just as long as the history of Western otherworld fantasies. There really is no difference between the two.

On that subject, otherworld fantasies were actually the standard for fantasy lore up until Tolkein's The Hobbit arrived on the scene and changed all that by creating Middle Earth, which broke new ground by creating a fantasy world without introducing it through the eyes of someone from our world.

Ironically, the fad was the abandoning of the fish out of water dynamic in favor of giving us the POV of a native of the world. Now, it seems the fad is dying and proper otherworld fantasy has made a resurgence. The strange thing is that, for some reason, the west has adopted the Japanese word for otherworld and we've stopped using our own perfectly servicable native word for it.

Well, I think the term 'isekai' refers to the generation of fantasy novels that are published today where the setting goes like the MCs use their knowledege and world's convenience to solve the problems they encounter.

Of course, this is strictly an opinion. Pop lit has lots of overlapping standards to officially delineate one genre from another.

So with that logic wizard of oz is an isekai

I can't see the reason why not. Again, pop lit's standards are overlapping, so it's hard to be strict on one thing.

And I guess I'd like to read Dorothy steamrolling Oz in a tank.

 

[Jemini]

Well, I think the term 'isekai' refers to the generation of fantasy novels that are published today where the setting goes like the MCs use their knowledege and world's convenience to solve the problems they encounter.

Of course, this is strictly an opinion. Pop lit has lots of overlapping standards to officially delineate one genre from another.

No, it does not refer to today's generation. That's what I'm saying. In Japan, the term has been in use for over a century!

Yes, it is fairly recent that the west has adopted the Japanese term, but the term is by no means new or recent, and it does not refer to any specific trope outside of the moving from our world to the fantasy world. Or, in more modern fantasies, moving from one fantasy world to another, or sometimes even reverse-isekaiing into our world.

 

[Deleted member 54065]

No, it does not refer to today's generation. That's what I'm saying. In Japan, the term has been in use for over a century!

Yes, it is fairly recent that the west has adopted the Japanese term, but the term is by no means new or recent.

Yes, I'm aware. What I'm referring to is the use of the same, old Japanese word that has come to define that subgenre of portal fantasy where the reincarnated/transmigrated/summoned MC uses their modern, contemporary knowledge and techs to solve another world's problems.

 

[Jemini]

Yes, I'm aware. What I'm referring to is the use of the same, old Japanese word that has come to define that subgenre of portal fantasy where the reincarnated/transmigrated/summoned MC uses their modern, contemporary knowledge and techs to solve another world's problems.

Ok, I believe your thinking has gone very backwards here. A new trope developing within the genre does not mean the word's definition has changed to be narrowed to only stories that contain this new trope.

It's a new trope in an existing genre. This means the genre has expanded, not narrowed. It's completely backwards and myopic to think that way.