Language Comprehension in Isekai

[Cauldrons]

The ability to understand all languages in a given world a main character is transported to is a standard trope, but I don't think it's been utilized correctly, to it's maximum, or even acknowledged for how utterly broken such as skill would be. I've always been somewhat vocal about my dislike for tropes in Isekai not being needed or living up to their fullest potential but I truly do think this is a shining example of that. Thinking about it from our worlds perspective how many people know a second language while not being a dual citizen of some kind? Knowing more than one or two languages is laughably rare and useful skill and the Isekai genre treat it like a fodder skill. Imagine being able to read dead languages and not thinking it was a useful ability for uncovering history. It has countless uses like negotiating with other races or communities, reading encoded messages, and acting as a translator for perhaps even royalty. But no isekai protagonist don't care about it because they're a bunch of murder hobos (who happen to always pick an adventurer profession) who would die from exhaustion from actually communicating with an enemy before killing them. Protagonist could go into a new world with that skill alone and never gain a new skill and be set for life, but protagonists in their arrogance think of it as a basic skill and take it for granted.

 

[lnv]

The ability to understand all languages in a given world a main character is transported to is a standard trope, but I don't think it's been utilized correctly, to it's maximum, or even acknowledged for how utterly broken such as skill would be. I've always been somewhat vocal about my dislike for tropes in Isekai not being needed or living up to their fullest potential but I truly do think this is a shining example of that. Thinking about it from our worlds perspective how many people know a second language while not being a dual citizen of some kind? Knowing more than one or two languages is laughably rare and useful skill and the Isekai genre treat it like a fodder skill. Imagine being able to read dead languages and not thinking it was a useful ability for uncovering history. It has countless uses like negotiating with other races or communities, reading encoded messages, and acting as a translator for perhaps even royalty. But no isekai protagonist don't care about it because they're a bunch of murder hobos (who happen to always pick an adventurer profession) who would die from exhaustion from actually communicating with an enemy before killing them. Protagonist could go into a new world with that skill alone and never gain a new skill and be set for life, but protagonists in their arrogance think of it as a basic skill and take it for granted.

Pretty sure the language skill being OP in isekai is common enough, even more likely the skill ends up OP if it has "babel" in its name.

 

[NotaNuffian]

The ability to understand all languages in a given world a main character is transported to is a standard trope, but I don't think it's been utilized correctly, to it's maximum, or even acknowledged for how utterly broken such as skill would be. I've always been somewhat vocal about my dislike for tropes in Isekai not being needed or living up to their fullest potential but I truly do think this is a shining example of that. Thinking about it from our worlds perspective how many people know a second language while not being a dual citizen of some kind? Knowing more than one or two languages is laughably rare and useful skill and the Isekai genre treat it like a fodder skill. Imagine being able to read dead languages and not thinking it was a useful ability for uncovering history. It has countless uses like negotiating with other races or communities, reading encoded messages, and acting as a translator for perhaps even royalty. But no isekai protagonist don't care about it because they're a bunch of murder hobos (who happen to always pick an adventurer profession) who would die from exhaustion from actually communicating with an enemy before killing them. Protagonist could go into a new world with that skill alone and never gain a new skill and be set for life, but protagonists in their arrogance think of it as a basic skill and take it for granted.

Cuz it is wish fulfilment and no readers would want their proxy to be there just for admin?

 

[Kilolo]

think about it like this.

why are you assuming that those Isekai world has divergent language like ours? the way I see it, it's our world that's weird because we didn't have a langua franca.

 

[bigbear51]

Most people don't want to bother dealing with any language gaps. Even in my own reverse isekai I just waved it off with magic. Though the funny thing is there is an isekai manga that deals with that. It's called "I Was Summoned By The Demon Lord, But I Can't Understand Her Language".

 

[Cauldrons]

think about it like this.

why are you assuming that those Isekai world has divergent language like ours? the way I see it, it's our world that's weird because we didn't have a langua franca.

Because often times (mind you I'll admit not all) the story goes out of the way saying the language gets translated for them.

Cuz it is wish fulfilment and no readers would want their proxy to be there just for admin?

Not every Isekai is a wish fulfillment story some authors go above and beyond when it comes to crafting a story, but they sometimes get caught in trapping like I just pointed out. P.s. throwing out criticism for a genre and it's tropes because a lot of people view it as wish fulfillment is both lazy and a disservice to the genre as a whole. Just because something is simple doesn't mean you couldn't or shouldn't hope it can become more complex and built up.

 

[NotaNuffian]

Not every Isekai is a wish fulfillment story some authors go above and beyond when it comes to crafting a story, but they sometimes get caught in trapping like I just pointed out. P.s. throwing out criticism for a genre and it's tropes because a lot of people view it as wish fulfillment is both lazy and a disservice to the genre as a whole. Just because something is simple doesn't mean you couldn't or shouldn't hope it can become more complex and built up.

And that itself is a noble thought, trying to build something further than just whine and cringe about the copy pasted works.

The problem is that the market is saturated with generic works because:
A. No one wants to put the legworks for a supposedly good idea that falls due to poor execution and someone else sees your mistake and build off your corpse.
B. Good ideas are hard to come by, we can do minor tweaks here and there as well as insert OG plans to see how it fares, but if the audience reception is crap, then all that planning goes down the drain. Kind of why most authors just regress to mediocrity.

I don't hate average works, I am tired of them.

As for your "use universal language skills for something more", I had seen people using it to uncover history, that is it. Because the universal language skill is mostly there to allow the MC (reader's proxy) to go and enjoy the otherworld without having the need to use google translate.

I want to see a work that has the MC take the skill for granted and all of a sudden, loses the skill and he has to learn the languages the hard way.

 

[Cipiteca396]

Frankly, it would only work if it was the focus of the story.

It's true that there are infinite uses for a universal translator, but the MC has more important things to worry about. If they fuck off to the library when they're supposed to be saving the world, then the world goes kablooey.

In many cases, it's considered a simple spell because it is a simple spell. It's not just the MC, but every scholarly or magically inclined person who has access to it. It's still valuable, but not enough to draw the MC's attention. You may as well ask them to be a farmer, since they have earth and life magic.

Which is why I said it has to be the focus of the story. There are MCs who just use their magic to farm or do menial tasks. With the big problem being that it bores readers. Being able to uncover all the world's history is cool for an author, and maybe for a decent percentage of readers. But the rest will just skip it since there's no tension.

 

[Alfir]

because they're a bunch of murder hobos

I can sympathize

 

[TremendousHuman]

It is, however, usually shown as a broken skill. I could probably list like 6 novels off top of my head where it was utilised as a cheat.
In my isekai, I had the protagonist have a specific language put inside his mind, with a carefully assessed level of comprehension that would be, to a more or less omniscient objective and impersonal observer, equal to that of the highest level of a language he had spoken prior to death because I didn't want anything like that.

 

[soumahr]

You would be suprised how many people can speak at least 3 languages in India. I myself can speak 3. So dual speakers are not that rare.

 

[Deleted member 54065]

Knowing more than one or two languages is laughably rare

Come to our country. You'd find most of us can speak three languages, or even four.

 

[BlackKnightX]

The ability to understand all languages in a given world a main character is transported to is a standard trope, but I don't think it's been utilized correctly, to it's maximum, or even acknowledged for how utterly broken such as skill would be. I've always been somewhat vocal about my dislike for tropes in Isekai not being needed or living up to their fullest potential but I truly do think this is a shining example of that. Thinking about it from our worlds perspective how many people know a second language while not being a dual citizen of some kind? Knowing more than one or two languages is laughably rare and useful skill and the Isekai genre treat it like a fodder skill. Imagine being able to read dead languages and not thinking it was a useful ability for uncovering history. It has countless uses like negotiating with other races or communities, reading encoded messages, and acting as a translator for perhaps even royalty. But no isekai protagonist don't care about it because they're a bunch of murder hobos (who happen to always pick an adventurer profession) who would die from exhaustion from actually communicating with an enemy before killing them. Protagonist could go into a new world with that skill alone and never gain a new skill and be set for life, but protagonists in their arrogance think of it as a basic skill and take it for granted.

You sound kind of jealous to me~ lol

Nobody cares about that. Most isekais are wish-fulfillment and escapism. Whatever the author wishes to have in real life but doesn’t have it, he can get it in fiction. Same goes for the readers. Our imagination is really powerful, so when reading fiction, it’s like we live another life for a moment.

On a more serious note, though. I agree with you, yes, the language comprehension skill is OP as fuck. But that’s coming from the perspective of the people from this world. This world of ours relies more on knowledge and intelligence than strength and magic—which doesn’t quite exist, as far as most people know.

It’s a broken skill in real life, in our world. If I ever receive such a skill in this world, I’ll dance in joy. I can talk to anyone all around the world in their native language. I can read or watch or listen to any media from every single country. Getting a job is super easy if you know every single language. Companies will flock over you.

But that’s if it’s in our world.

The world in the isekai novel is vastly different. It’s a fantasy world full of dangers. Some even have a monster or an individual that could kill you with just a breath or a tap of a finger. It’s ridiculously dangerous.

So think about it, if you were to get isekaied into such a world, would you still care about language comprehension? If you suddenly get ambushed by a band of bandits during your journey, would the language comprehension help you out of that? If a freakin dragon comes to destroy the village you live in, would the language comprehension save your life?

See what I mean? Language comprehension is precious, if it’s used in our world. But in a fantasy world, it doesn’t do much shit. So why does the MC have to care about that?

 

[Ai-chan]

think about it like this.

why are you assuming that those Isekai world has divergent language like ours? the way I see it, it's our world that's weird because we didn't have a langua franca.

Indeed. If Bible traditions are to be believed, it wasn't us who decided to use different languages. It was God who cursed us with the confusion of tongues at Etemenanki and scattered our ancestors to the four winds.

 

[TremendousHuman]

Speaking of,

It has countless uses like negotiating with other races

Except you also need skills as a negotiator. I speak several languages and would laugh at any moron who would put me in a diplomatic party as an acting member.

reading encoded messages

Well, they'll be encoded in a different language probably. It depends on what you think is a language. Mathematics is a language, for example, but you wouldn't expect the isekai loser NEET (as they often are such people) to instantly become the next David Hilbert.

acting as a translator for perhaps even royalty

Again, I speak several languages (fluently) and wouldn't trust myself to communicate between two middle-managers of two companies from different countries. Professional translation is a difficult task, requiring a lot of skills and knowledge. Just speaking a language is by no means enough.
I've watched a YouTube video titled smth like "the masculine urge to give up and move into the woods" and the creator of the video talked of how his female colleague said: "I'm this close to giving up and just going off to work in a strip club", to which he thought that she didn't have the people skills necessary for a successful career as a stripper.
People tend to diminish the difficulties associated with doing things they don't really understand how are done. Just like here.

 

[strayCat0]

think about it like this.

why are you assuming that those Isekai world has divergent language like ours? the way I see it, it's our world that's weird because we didn't have a langua franca.

I don't see how a lingua franca would be the natural progression for spoken language. The only way it can be that way is that the whole race (humanity) must be interconnected very closely, and with heavy and conscious efforts. You'll see this by the use of English language for our current society. But given enough isolation, any language would diverge from its parent. It's only a matter of sooner or later. You've seen this by Australian and US American accents. One thousand years later, you might get a new branch of germanic language.

One might say distances is the most important variable, but I'll repeat, it's just pure isolation, doesn't matter the size. For example, New Guinea/Papua might be only +-750.000 km^2 in area. A miniscule area compared to entire human history. But you get easily +1.000 languages spread through in its many isolated tribes.

Compare that to fantasy world, where you'll get not just human tribes, but even other sentient races. I would say it's almost impossible for them to get a lingua franca unless they're also modern like us or that all the sentient races are a hivemind.

 

[LilTV1155]

Language is an issue when you want to create specific prounounciation for it, but dont have any ability to create and record that sound or phonetic.

Writing a language is a different story as long no one take grammar in consideration.

Uses of languages in fictional worlds are always bound by our Earth realtime rules.

 

[Alfir]

There is an exception to this rule of OP language comprehension abilities. The MCs that reincarnated to another world as a baby are one, and also those that inherited memories of their past life are the so-called exceptions. Most transmigration stories take the one-dimensional approach of possession, that's why they need that OP language comprehension abilities.

 

[Cauldrons]

Speaking of,

Except you also need skills as a negotiator. I speak several languages and would laugh at any moron who would put me in a diplomatic party as an acting member.

Well, they'll be encoded in a different language probably. It depends on what you think is a language. Mathematics is a language, for example, but you wouldn't expect the isekai loser NEET (as they often are such people) to instantly become the next David Hilbert.

Again, I speak several languages (fluently) and wouldn't trust myself to communicate between two middle-managers of two companies from different countries. Professional translation is a difficult task, requiring a lot of skills and knowledge. Just speaking a language is by no means enough.
I've watched a YouTube video titled smth like "the masculine urge to give up and move into the woods" and the creator of the video talked of how his female colleague said: "I'm this close to giving up and just going off to work in a strip club", to which he thought that she didn't have the people skills necessary for a successful career as a stripper.
People tend to diminish the difficulties associated with doing things they don't really understand how are done. Just like here.

You seem to be making some creative liberties in how you interpret your own understanding of how language translation works in a fictional setting and conjoining it with your own woes. First off, the protagonists in these stories never have trouble understanding the 'lingo' of other worldly inhabitants so why would it suddenly cause misunderstanding is the case of negotiations? It doesn't matter if the person sucks at negotiations you act like understand another places language isn't integral to negotiation or other things, in fact often times translators aren't actually negotiating themselves and are just parroting what someone else tell them to. So you specifically sucking at negotiating doesn't negate my points.

Encoded messages are just another form of language so why wouldn't they be able to read it besides, bullshit plot reasons? Also while yes math may be a language it just doesn't correlate to a language. Comparing math to a language is like comparing a candle to a nuclear bomb.

 

[Cipiteca396]

Encoded messages are just another form of language so why wouldn't they be able to read it besides, bullshit plot reasons? Also while yes math may be a language it just doesn't correlate to a language. Comparing math to a language is like comparing a candle to a nuclear bomb.

These statements are contradictory.

Math is far simpler than a language, and most people will have a basic understanding of how it works since it works the same way no matter who looks at it. Compare that to a language- and especially an encoded message in that language? Even if you had a perfect translation skill, an encoded message would still look like gibberish. Here's an example:

Spoiler: Coded message

3:2:1|2|3
8:5:1|2
9:1:1
5:62:4|5
8:20:1|2|3|4
6:3:5|6|7|8
8:23:3|4
1:3:1|2|3
4:16:1|2
10:9:5|6|7
2:3:5
10:11:2|3|4
3:16:6|7

This is one of the easiest types of cyphers in english literature, so common that I figured out exactly how it worked within seconds of seeing it in its original context. (Without that context you won't be able to figure out what it says, sorry for that.)

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As for negotiating, it's kind of the same problem. Even if you can translate perfectly, that doesn't help if you have no idea what's being said. How can you translate a word that relates to a concept you aren't familiar with? When the kings of two rival nations are sitting there waiting for you to translate, and you're just like; "What the fuck is mudita?"

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You're both making good points, so there's no reason to become hostile.