No, seriously, what's with all the double standards when it comes to fantasy humans?

[forli]

I don't even know how many times I've seen a story that has humans claim to be superior to 'race' while 'race' claims to be superior to humans, but the author makes the humans say it in an over-the-top rude way (that doesn't sound like the way any human would ever talk), while 'race' tries to be more convincing (in the way that real racists talk) and the author also makes 'race' stronger to make them "correct". So the readers are supposed to conclude that humans suck and 'race' is cool, even though they both are actually being racist to each other in the exact same way.

And why is it that when every member of 'race' goes around murdering humans except for the MC, the humans are bad for assuming that the MC is like the others, but in a story that shows humans being evil it is perfectly ok for the MC to assume that ALL humans are like that?

And why is it that when humans believe that something that 'race' does is harmful to the world, that is always a religious superstition invented to persecute 'race', but when 'race' believes that something humans do is harmful they are instantly assumed to be correct because humans are 'bad for the environment' or some nonsense like that?

And why is it that when a story has humans that "domesticate" another sapient race, the story is all about how horrible and evil humans are for doing so, but when something else enslaves humans in the same way, people call it "cute"?

And why is it that when 'race' tends to do something objectionable, like eating people or being very warmongering, they are given the excuse of "that's what's natural for 'race' to do", but that excuse is never used for anything that humans do?

And why is it that when I point these things out the only way people try to defend these double standards is with the oh-so-hilarious deflection of 'I'm racist, so this is ok for me', or the meaningless edgy nonsense of 'humans suck so it's ok'?

 

[LuoirM]

Nice question... We just aren't used to that lmao

 

[Prince_Azmiran_Myrian]

Some people just hate humanity.
Sometimes the story is pushing propoganda or some activist agenda.

Read some better stories.

 

[Lloyd]

Because the writer is retarded. Next question please.

 

[Tempokai]

Some people just really hate humans. Just look at Twitter, and you'll understand why

 

[minionlover]

I don't even know how many times I've seen a story that has humans claim to be superior to 'race' while 'race' claims to be superior to humans, but the author makes the humans say it in an over-the-top rude way (that doesn't sound like the way any human would ever talk), while 'race' tries to be more convincing (in the way that real racists talk) and the author also makes 'race' stronger to make them "correct". So the readers are supposed to conclude that humans suck and 'race' is cool, even though they both are actually being racist to each other in the exact same way.

And why is it that when every member of 'race' goes around murdering humans except for the MC, the humans are bad for assuming that the MC is like the others, but in a story that shows humans being evil it is perfectly ok for the MC to assume that ALL humans are like that?

And why is it that when humans believe that something that 'race' does is harmful to the world, that is always a religious superstition invented to persecute 'race', but when 'race' believes that something humans do is harmful they are instantly assumed to be correct because humans are 'bad for the environment' or some nonsense like that?

And why is it that when a story has humans that "domesticate" another sapient race, the story is all about how horrible and evil humans are for doing so, but when something else enslaves humans in the same way, people call it "cute"?

And why is it that when 'race' tends to do something objectionable, like eating people or being very warmongering, they are given the excuse of "that's what's natural for 'race' to do", but that excuse is never used for anything that humans do?

And why is it that when I point these things out the only way people try to defend these double standards is with the oh-so-hilarious deflection of 'I'm racist, so this is ok for me', or the meaningless edgy nonsense of 'humans suck so it's ok'?

I usually see it happen in revenge novels. Humanity is just shitted on so the author can justify the mc's mindless murder spree.

 

[Deleted member 93348]

It began as some “rich” and “compelling” take on the ugliness of humanity if they were in another world than ours. But that’s the inherent problem: what do authors mean by ugliness? War, slavery, famine, and murder? Sure, but why make it look like as if humanity is the only one good at it? There's supposed to be other races, yet they can’t even bother to give them the same nuance that humans have.

And, of course, how can I forget the classic “humans are the dominant species but are the weakest” fantasy trope? Orcs, goblins, and other default evil races would’ve conquered their asses a millennia ago. The story should just begin with the MC walking on a barren wasteland where orcs keep whipping chained humans into massive cave factories.

 

[Anon2024]

It's because superior elves are harder to force into sexual circumstances.

 

[SailusGebel]

And why is it that when 'race' tends to do something objectionable, like eating people or being very warmongering, they are given the excuse of "that's what's natural for 'race' to do", but that excuse is never used for anything that humans do?

 

[CarburetorThompson]

I don't even know how many times I've seen a story that has humans claim to be superior to 'race' while 'race' claims to be superior to humans, but the author makes the humans say it in an over-the-top rude way

No problems so far.

http://imgur.com/a/HySsfHP

 

[Kidd_Wadsworth]

Stories are important because they warn us. Think of Rumpelstiltskin. This is a story about a woman who bargains away her first born child. In other words, we are being warned, "read the fine print in the contract." Or Snow White and the 7 dwarfs which cautions against tempting things. "Don't take a bite of that delicious apple." (kind of sounds sexual doesn't it.)

So yes, I think the writers of the stories you are reading have agendas. They don't care about the other race, they are trying to point out the flaws of humanity so we will fix them. This may be one of the reasons Star Trek (the original series) was so popular. Humanity had fixed many of its problems and was now encountering a lot of problems in other races.

 

[ElijahRyne]

I don't even know how many times I've seen a story that has humans claim to be superior to 'race' while 'race' claims to be superior to humans, but the author makes the humans say it in an over-the-top rude way (that doesn't sound like the way any human would ever talk), while 'race' tries to be more convincing (in the way that real racists talk) and the author also makes 'race' stronger to make them "correct". So the readers are supposed to conclude that humans suck and 'race' is cool, even though they both are actually being racist to each other in the exact same way.

And why is it that when every member of 'race' goes around murdering humans except for the MC, the humans are bad for assuming that the MC is like the others, but in a story that shows humans being evil it is perfectly ok for the MC to assume that ALL humans are like that?

And why is it that when humans believe that something that 'race' does is harmful to the world, that is always a religious superstition invented to persecute 'race', but when 'race' believes that something humans do is harmful they are instantly assumed to be correct because humans are 'bad for the environment' or some nonsense like that?

And why is it that when a story has humans that "domesticate" another sapient race, the story is all about how horrible and evil humans are for doing so, but when something else enslaves humans in the same way, people call it "cute"?

And why is it that when 'race' tends to do something objectionable, like eating people or being very warmongering, they are given the excuse of "that's what's natural for 'race' to do", but that excuse is never used for anything that humans do?

And why is it that when I point these things out the only way people try to defend these double standards is with the oh-so-hilarious deflection of 'I'm racist, so this is ok for me', or the meaningless edgy nonsense of 'humans suck so it's ok'?

Typically, either they don’t know what they have done, or they are just trying to be edgy. Although, on occasion, the different groups may be allegories and the author might be trying to say something.

 

[K5Rakitan]

Some authors are ashamed to be human, and they are working through their trauma by writing.

 

[Cipiteca396]

Mostly it's as a statement about humans. The story is designed to point out flaws in humans, either to offer a solution or just to vent.

However, that runs into a slight conflict... Humans are the only reference authors have to write about.
So how are you supposed to figure out what traits define a race, and what are purely cultural or personal?

How do you write another race without comparing it to humans?
Even if you try to make them entirely different from humans, you're still using humans as a negative reference.
If you try to make them similar to humans, are you actually making them similar to humans, or just your perception of humans?

And why is it that when I point these things out the only way people try to defend these double standards

In truth, this is your fault. You're seeing a double standard where one doesn't exist, for the most part. There can't be a double standard when there's no standard at all.

Of course nobody is going to seriously defend a point that they don't care about. It's fiction, meant to be consumed for catharsis or fun.

On the other hand, a lot of these 'double standards' are confronted in stories. Often, that's the entire point of the story. This is a question you can't get an answer for in real life, only fiction.

 

[melchi]

It could just be a plot device to create conflict. It doesn't have to be humans who are discriminated against. Like in a game I played they set up one city where the humans passed a law that the only elves allowed are slaves. The punishment for entering the city as an elf is capture/slavery. There were even some players that would PK others and roleplay branding their victim claiming that the brand show them as property of said player.

Some people would complain out of character that having such racist things was wrong. People who complained over the lines were told to deal with it in character. I would argue that having offense things in a setting is good story telling. There could be institutional discrimination of any sort. Like for example, in the webnovel the osculation when a bunch of people turn into beast people what does greater humanity start doing with them?

 

[ConansWitchBaby]

Fetish

 

[forli]

I'll just say it, I think that the people that write and read these novels with weak and evil humans are just people that consider themselves to be superior to everyone else but are frustrated over not being treated as such (since they are really not).

Humans in these fantasy novels are meant to represent "normal people" or people that are in the "outgroup", that's why they act in cartoonishly over-the-top racist and arrogant ways, because that's how the author sees all the common people that are below them. And then the other races are made much stronger so that the author can satisfy their fantasy of them and the people similar to them being superior to everyone else, and being able to stomp on everyone that does not revere them the way they 'deserve'.

That creates some very bad implications for how often the readers call for the genocide of those 'humans'...

I honestly find these novels to be morally repugnant, but unfortunately, they are very popular in scribble hub. One of the reasons I've not been able to write recently is because I feel unclean posting on a website where these things are so popular.

 

[Aegis_Of_The_Void]

I'll just say it, I think that the people that write and read these novels with weak and evil humans are just people that consider themselves to be superior to everyone else but are frustrated over not being treated as such (since they are really not).

Humans in these fantasy novels are meant to represent "normal people" or people that are in the "outgroup", that's why they act in cartoonishly over-the-top racist and arrogant ways, because that's how the author sees all the common people that are below them. And then the other races are made much stronger so that the author can satisfy their fantasy of them and the people similar to them being superior to everyone else, and being able to stomp on everyone that does not revere them the way they 'deserve'.

That creates some very bad implications for how often the readers call for the genocide of those 'humans'...

I honestly find these novels to be morally repugnant, but unfortunately, they are very popular in scribble hub. One of the reasons I've not been able to write recently is because I feel unclean posting on a website where these things are so popular.

I'll be straightforward, from what I can see, you're saying that those authors of those books portray other races as these powerful beings anything they do is their 'culture' and it's okay while humans doing anything remotely similar is horrible. Do correct me if I'm wrong.

In the first place, there are those humans. They are repulsive but they exist. The overlooked fact in many books is that they are the Minority in our world and many. Sure, people can be cruel but most are not trying to be. They simply don't care for anything other than their immediate surroundings and loved ones.

The other 'superior races'? Is there any real reason to get mad about how they're portrayed? To my knowledge, we know of them and many have different perspectives of them, but no Dragons exist. No Elves exist. No Ogres exist. No Goblins exist. How could we possibly know what they're like? What are we supposed to write instead? That they're all weaklings? That they're all impossible to kill?

...

Books that are 'popular', are a book that has captured readers, for whatever reason. Whether that be plot, characters, world-building, or whatever other reason someone likes the book.

In then end, what exactly are you asking? Why do people view humans horribly? Why are other races so loved? The answer is that people have seen things that made them lose trust, hope. It changed their perspective. But it's just that.

Their perspective. Their book.

You said that these people make others weak and evil because they feel superior but let me ask you this.

Have you ever been a dwarf? Could you tell me if they are stronger than humans or not?
Have you ever been a Dragon? Are they truly the god-like beings we portray them as?
Have you ever met more than 5 people, who are truly good?

Benefits is what drives people. Whether that's a better life for their family, or death to them so they can survive.

I personally know, I am weak. I am frail. Describe it however you wish. But if being evil, means my family would survive in a man-eat-man world? I would go to those lengths.

Would you?

Portraying humans as evil and weak isn't 'wrong'.

But there isn't a 'right' either.

Superiority? Sure, the world isn't fair, some are stronger than others, wealthier than others, healthier than others. But can we truly call ourselves superior? Why would we portray dragons as god-like beings if we thought we were superior?

Because we think they don't exist.

Maybe they didn't. Maybe they did.

Jeez, I ranted too much.

Point is, the world is based on perspective and how different people see different things. Can you say accurately you know exactly why some exact person made humans weak and evil in a book?

No, you can't.

 

[forli]

When someone shows all humans (not some, ALL of them) as being racist and arrogant despite being inferior to the other races, there's obviously no desire there to show a nuanced or realistic portrayal of humanity. Those authors are just writing a caricature of people they don't like, a talking punching bag.

And when the self-insert protagonist transforms from being human into one of the superior races (I don't know why the fact that they are not real is relevant to them representing the author's ingroup), all while the readers call for the genocide of humans, I think that it's very obvious what's going on.

 

[BearlyAlive]

Most of the time it's just a cheap hook to justify MC being "different", "better" and "special" or to justify MC going china-style murder hobo. Racism makes the best (means cheapest) villains, even better if they're also religious nutjobs on a holy crusade to burn all je... fantasy people