Sex, and Smut in Stories

[gaylolis]

do they write the nakama thing so it'd be easier to sexualize in yoai doujins?

Well, I'm just basing that statement on the review I received.

In any case, what I learned in this thread was to continue writing, know your goals in writing (I prefer to be taken as a serious author), and though small, there's still an audience for this certain type of story.

Thanks for the feedback guys!

take my word with a grain of salt, but i take authors seriously if they write something i like. whether its a smut or not, if they can write something worth reading for me, they have my respect.

do what you want, smut or not, and don't let others dictate what you should be :D /

 

[Deleted member 29316]

do they write the nakama thing so it'd be easier to sexualize in yoai doujins?

Interesting enough, 'nakama' or 'naikama' could also be a Filipino word for 'to be able to bed' which is sexual in nature.

 

[SailusGebel]

Last time, I received a review like this in RoyalRoad.
View attachment 4086

Well, I'm just laughing and ignoring such reviews. But then, I noticed that lately, my stats in that site eventually dropped to nothing. Well, I kind of expected such development, since I've received that kind of treatment in that site before. The only difference this time is that I'm determined to stay.

Now, I'm aware of the saying 'sex sells' and how effective it is in luring readers to your work. However, aside from my goal to create a purely adventure work (I'm inspired by Tolkien, among others), I'm the kind of author that doesn't throw sex around freely. I mean, I'm not against smut in stories, but I prefer smut (should I decide to include it) to be meaningful to the story.

My only question is, am I--and similar authors out there--still have a place in online publishing nowadays?

Take note: I'm just asking a legit question, not fishing for sympathy. I'm planning to tell the feedback to my co-authors and students.

I've never understood why people don't like proper sex scenes. It can be used to tell about character relationships and about personality much more than a simple talk between lovers. You can always say that you can just skimp through the sex scene and go right at the pillow talk and etc. But pillow talk isn't everything. At least in my understanding, sex is a quintessence of trust and love between two(or more) people. All the small details can hint at many different things, an example is a fake orgasm, or when a male has erectile dysfunction due to stress, and so on. During the sex scene, you can show real emotions, because it's when people bare them. And when you write for example a rape scene and then go to a lover's sex, it will differ tremendously. The differences in sex scenes could also highlight the difference in a relationship and character personality. If you take two pairs of your characters, they can easily have two different sex scenes, because they will as well have a different understanding of love. And a different lovers relationship.

So, what I want to say, is that sex scenes are a necessity in my opinion when you write a mature story. Not those kinds of scenes where it's half of the novel and they lose their uniqueness when it's all the same stuff over and over again. But a well written one, that can highlight the personality, that can show a different side, hidden feelings. Of course, it's my opinion only, and I don't want to force it. However, I sincerely think that a proper sex scene is hard to write and it's really should be a part of any mature story.

 

[Deleted member 29316]

I've never understood why people don't like proper sex scenes. It can be used to tell about character relationships and about personality much more than a simple talk between lovers. You can always say that you can just skimp through the sex scene and go right at the pillow talk and etc. But pillow talk isn't everything. At least in my understanding, sex is a quintessence of trust and love between two(or more) people. All the small details can hint at many different things, an example is a fake orgasm, or when a male has erectile dysfunction due to stress, and so on. During the sex scene, you can show real emotions, because it's when people bare them. And when you write for example a rape scene and then go to a lover's sex, it will differ tremendously. The differences in sex scenes could also highlight the difference in a relationship and character personality. If you take two pairs of your characters, they can easily have two different sex scenes, because they will as well have a different understanding of love. And a different lovers relationship.

So, what I want to say, is that sex scenes are a necessity in my opinion when you write a mature story. Not those kinds of scenes where it's half of the novel and they lose their uniqueness when it's all the same stuff over and over again. But a well written one, that can highlight the personality, that can show a different side, hidden feelings. Of course, it's my opinion only, and I don't want to force it. However, I sincerely think that a proper sex scene is hard to write and it's really should be a part of any mature story.

Yes, I get your point, and it's what I strive for if ever I decide to put in a sex scene in my work.

What's pretty strange for me is that some readers would shove their love for sex onto your throat even if that's not your goal as an author. I do proper build-ups for my story, and putting in sex scenes or smut without substance is just a no-no for me. Besides, they also whine about my MC being a 'shounen, nakama' protag when all that he does is to solve things in a diplomatic manner, which is kind of funny because it's quite effective in real life (I do get it's fiction, but still, violence is just my last resort).

 

[Aleth08]

Ur parents support you?! Mine said that writing will pay me nothing!!!!

Lucky for you. My parents got angry because I wrote. They say I'm like an autistic person who is busy with my own world. But lately they have been less complaining because during the coronavirus we couldn't go out or do things freely either.

I consider myself very fortunate and grateful for that. I was really hesitating before telling them. But when I did, they asked me all the details, and in the end, they told me they supported me. On the other hand, some of my relatives and a couple of people I know online werent as friendly[didnt want them to find it out but they did, so *shrug*]. But I dont give a rat's ass about their opinions. Only my parents' opinions mattered, and they gave me the green light.

 

[Saileri]

I think they got no patience for a proper build-up. I don't know, but for me, it ruins a good story potential.

I really prefer when there's logic in stuff rather than a complete fuckfest right after a new character is introduced. I'm that weird guy somewhere inbetween, where I focus on the story, world and characters but at the same time don't like to hide things that would happen at a certain point if it feels right to me. There needs to be at least a decent reasoning.

I've already ranted plenty of times about stories that either completely avoid it when the writing clearly reaches the point where it feels natural for it to happen or the ones that completely ignore all the development and go straight for sex, so I'll stop myself from doing it again here.

 

[SailusGebel]

Yes, I get your point, and it's what I strive for if ever I decide to put in a sex scene in my work.

What's pretty strange for me is that some readers would shove their love for sex onto your throat even if that's not your goal as an author. I do proper build-ups for my story, and putting in sex scenes or smut without substance is just a no-no for me. Besides, they also whine about my MC being a 'shounen, nakama' protag when all that he does is to solve things in a diplomatic manner, which is kind of funny because it's quite effective in real life (I do get it's fiction, but still, violence is just my last resort).

I understand it. When you put a tag 18+ people would start flooding, waiting for a sex scene with every character possible at every moment possible. And if you try to show a different understanding or avoidance of love, then your character is deemed "cuck Japanese beta mc". But that's just how all those readers are brought up. I always say to myself, that they have a different worldview. Nothing more, nothing less. Why even look at that kind of people, when it's obvious, that it's not their cup of tea.

 

[Deleted member 29316]

I understand it. When you put a tag 18+ people would start flooding, waiting for a sex scene with every character possible at every moment possible. And if you try to show a different understanding or avoidance of love, then your character is deemed "cuck Japanese beta mc". But that's just how all those the readers are brought up. I always say to myself, that they have a different worldview. Nothing more, nothing less. Why even look at that kind of people, when it's obvious, that it's not their cup of tea.

Yeah, indeed. My MC was a typical teacher that was raised in his country's values and culture, and coincidentally, we have conservative views on sex and marriage. We can be aware of the feelings of someone from the opposite sex, but we'd only make a move once we either like the girl/boy, and/or we're sure that the feelings are mutual. And sex before marriage here is frowned upon, and add his background as something that promotes 'restraint, and common sense'...so yeah, that's how my MC became the 'cuck, Japanese beta'.

And oh yeah, I just remembered this. I don't want to write something that promotes irresponsibility on the readers...unrestrained sex is just a no-no for me. I've seen the results of such actions, and it's ugly as hell. Kids growing up with irresponsible or absent parents, and they get to do it to their own family. So yeah, I suffer the consequences.

But no matter, you're absolutely right to disregard such people, since they are just part of the obstacles to the top. Thanks for the reply!

 

[ChronicleCrawler]

But no matter, you're absolutely right to disregard such people, since they are just part of the obstacles to the top. Thanks for the reply!

Life is such my friend. When there's a reader there's an issue. You can report those toxic reviews actually.

 

[Deleted member 29316]

Life is such my friend. When there's a reader there's an issue. You can report those toxic reviews actually.

It's fine. I wear that review like a medal on my neck.

As an author, I don't want to write something that promotes irresponsibility, hence my MC is a 'cuck, and beta', and unrestrained, irresponsible sex is a no-no. I've seen the ugly effects of such actions. Children growing up with absent or irresponsible parents, and they get to do it on their own families. The last thing I'd want is to contribute to such tragedy. So yeah, I guess I get to suffer the consequence.

 

[LostLibrarian]

Ah... RR-Reviews. I spent a week or two reading reviews and afterwards I stopped my move to over there for now :D

 

[Shiver]

Last time, I received a review like this in RoyalRoad.
View attachment 4086

Well, I'm just laughing and ignoring such reviews. But then, I noticed that lately, my stats in that site eventually dropped to nothing. Well, I kind of expected such development, since I've received that kind of treatment in that site before. The only difference this time is that I'm determined to stay.

Now, I'm aware of the saying 'sex sells' and how effective it is in luring readers to your work. However, aside from my goal to create a purely adventure work (I'm inspired by Tolkien, among others), I'm the kind of author that doesn't throw sex around freely. I mean, I'm not against smut in stories, but I prefer smut (should I decide to include it) to be meaningful to the story.

My only question is, am I--and similar authors out there--still have a place in online publishing nowadays?

Take note: I'm just asking a legit question, not fishing for sympathy. I'm planning to tell the feedback to my co-authors and students.

I'll state the obvious and say that this isn't a review. It's somebody using the review system to make his personal preference comment about your work more visible. I think. I'm not to clear on half the terms he's using -and can't realy be bothered to google them-, so I'm giving it a 50-50 chance they might just be random letters thrown together. Report the 'review' and forget about it.

It might be that the subject of your novel attracts a certain type of person for a certain reason and if they don't get what they expect, they get upset?

I also post on RR, and Shift also hasn't got any smut in it (it'll probably get some sexy scenes, but up untill now they just wouldn't fit), but I've had a reader go ape-shit because my foreshadowing wasn't good enough (or he didn't read well enough) and he didn't like the direction I was going.

I took a look, made my foreshadowing a bit more obvious, continued my novel the way I wanted, lost him as a reader, gained 17 on RR and started posting here.

My advice is simple; look at any critique and review you get and see if it's actually based on more than a feeling. Then decide if it'll help you improve and if you need to adjust something. Then move on.

It's your story, no-one else's. There will always be people who love it and there will people who loathe it, but your (hopefully well informed) opinion is the only one that's relevant.

 

[Schwab]

My only question is, am I--and similar authors out there--still have a place in online publishing nowadays?

Take note: I'm just asking a legit question, not fishing for sympathy. I'm planning to tell the feedback to my co-authors and students.

you do. trust me, you do. in the end, all the 'sexy' scenes in such stories are just shilling for reads. that's why that add it in the first place. they're not writing it because they want to (or maybe they do, I'm not-well, yes, I am one to judge) but because RR is jam-packed with horny edgelords who've never interacted with women outside of a screen.

okay. that's enough projecting my dislike for the majority of litRPG readers. time to go crawl back into my hole...

 

[RimuThighHighs]

Royal Road rejected my story twice so they can go to hell lol

 

[TheHelpfulFawn]

“If you build it. They will come.” -Angels in the Outfield (I think that’s the movie title).

people will read what they want. RR for me just gives me the impression that it is full of 15-18 y/o teenagers.

 

[xluferx]

If the story have the sex scenes like this:

'Harder please! It feels soooo good! Yes!"

In other word porn videos dialogues or quality it inmeditaly becomes trash in my eyes and don't even bother to read the scenes.
But you are correct they SHOULD have a meaning and a purpose on the story like an ultimate connection with the love interest or perhaps a way to fill the void or maybe a low moment in life when and reach for hedonism going in a downward spiral..

Most readers are acostumed to what other already told you, badass, alpha and mediocre MC. Like the best example would be Meliodas or Issei. I even got a lot of angry reviews for having my Mc go shopping clothes with the female lead to build the relationship, one even called me a roastie(I'm a dude) without words they made it clear what exactly want.

 

[tigerine]

Now, I'm aware of the saying 'sex sells' and how effective it is in luring readers to your work. However, aside from my goal to create a purely adventure work (I'm inspired by Tolkien, among others), I'm the kind of author that doesn't throw sex around freely. I mean, I'm not against smut in stories, but I prefer smut (should I decide to include it) to be meaningful to the story.

My only question is, am I--and similar authors out there--still have a place in online publishing nowadays?

So this is a problem that romance authors (and to a lesser extent only in terms of numbers, erotica authors) have been dealing with for quite some time, and I'm sorry you've come up against it.

But stories about emotions and relationships are for women. I don't mean this in a "men can't have emotions" kind of way. I mean that stories where the personal development of a character and/or their romantic relationships take center stage are genre-labeled for a majority-female audience. And, as we know, work made by and for women is not taken seriously. This is why a not-insignificant part of the romance catalog is written pseudonymously by people who want to try their hand at it without becoming a 'romance author'. Once you're a 'romance author', that's all you write. If you want to write something else, you'll need another name.

It has been that way since time immemorial in the publishing industry, and continues to be borne out in online writing communities. The high walls between genres in jp publishing/manga publishing migrated online to light novel sites to offer users similar high walls between their LN genres. Tagging was used as a way to avoid friction in JP fan communities (where there are people who only want to see gen works, and works with sex/romance are subdivided into het/BL/GL). Improper tagging is frowned upon by the community and corrected with community action (ostracization and/or bullying).

Tagging generates a kind of compartmentalization, where readers never have to look at a work that they don't immediately want to read. It can feel very disconnected, especially if you're writing in a tag that is very separated from the larger community (like BL or gender-bender). But it does provide a chance at salvation: if your non-romantic work is tagged correctly with a 'gen' tag, you can acquire readers who can tell with a glance at your tags whether they would try your work.

It does mean that people who might otherwise like your story will not give it a chance. It does mean that you will have fewer eyeballs on your work. But I also think it leads to higher reader satisfaction, overall. So yes, there's a place for you to write in the way you choose and people will either ignore you or die mad about it. I'm 150k into a slow burn BL novel and they've just had a single kiss, yet I have a modest number of views/favs. I think people are invested in the relationship and want to see it develop in a natural way, without rushing things. So there is a way for you to garner readership, such as it is.

So tag correctly, be transparent about what you write and what readers should expect. You'll build a devoted circle of readers with very few disappointed people, I think.

 

[Deleted member 29316]

So this is a problem that romance authors (and to a lesser extent only in terms of numbers, erotica authors) have been dealing with for quite some time, and I'm sorry you've come up against it.

But stories about emotions and relationships are for women. I don't mean this in a "men can't have emotions" kind of way. I mean that stories where the personal development of a character and/or their romantic relationships take center stage are genre-labeled for a majority-female audience. And, as we know, work made by and for women is not taken seriously. This is why a not-insignificant part of the romance catalog is written pseudonymously by people who want to try their hand at it without becoming a 'romance author'. Once you're a 'romance author', that's all you write. If you want to write something else, you'll need another name.

It has been that way since time immemorial in the publishing industry, and continues to be borne out in online writing communities. The high walls between genres in jp publishing/manga publishing migrated online to light novel sites to offer users similar high walls between their LN genres. Tagging was used as a way to avoid friction in JP fan communities (where there are people who only want to see gen works, and works with sex/romance are subdivided into het/BL/GL). Improper tagging is frowned upon by the community and corrected with community action (ostracization and/or bullying).

Tagging generates a kind of compartmentalization, where readers never have to look at a work that they don't immediately want to read. It can feel very disconnected, especially if you're writing in a tag that is very separated from the larger community (like BL or gender-bender). But it does provide a chance at salvation: if your non-romantic work is tagged correctly with a 'gen' tag, you can acquire readers who can tell with a glance at your tags whether they would try your work.

It does mean that people who might otherwise like your story will not give it a chance. It does mean that you will have fewer eyeballs on your work. But I also think it leads to higher reader satisfaction, overall. So yes, there's a place for you to write in the way you choose and people will either ignore you or die mad about it. I'm 150k into a slow burn BL novel and they've just had a single kiss, yet I have a modest number of views/favs. I think people are invested in the relationship and want to see it develop in a natural way, without rushing things. So there is a way for you to garner readership, such as it is.

So tag correctly, be transparent about what you write and what readers should expect. You'll build a devoted circle of readers with very few disappointed people, I think.

Well, the thing is, I tagged correctly. It's 'harem', 'romance', 'yandere' and other tags. I put no sexual content warning, which meant that there's no sex or smut whatsoever in any part of my novel

And still, the poor fellow wanted MCs to f*ck all women they come across.

 

[Assurbanipal_II]

Well, the thing is, I tagged correctly. It's 'harem', 'romance', 'yandere' and other tags. I put no sexual content warning, which meant that there's no sex or smut whatsoever in any part of my novel

And still, the poor fellow wanted MCs to f*ck all women they come across.

^^ A significant portion of the novel readership consists of prepubescent wannabe edge lords. They couldn't even recognise a proper story when I hit them with a good book.

These people are literary illiterate in every sense of the word.

 

[Deleted member 29316]

^^ A significant portion of the novel readership consists of prepubescent wannabe edge lords. They couldn't even recognise a proper story when I hit them with a good book.

These people are literary illiterate in every sense of the word.

Well, I got no problems with them, as long as they leave my work alone. I put every warning in my page that is possible, though I didn't write them on my synopsis because I think it spoils the story.