The Importance of REPRESENTATION in Media

Shrimp_eater

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From my experience, the vast majority of the public tends not to care one way or the other as long as it doesn't affect the actual quality of the story. This includes the ones supposedly being represented.

Most normal people really just don't give a damn, this whole talk mostly comes from social media or those whose lives revolve around politics. Then it extended to entrepreneur types who put far too much credit on what they read on twitter, are trying to fulfill government/organization quotas or satisfy their investor's whims.
 

Anon2024

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Most people just want the source material to be respected. Most media these days do not respect it.

I think itโ€™d be better if people who want themselves represented, would write characters of their race in the way they want.
 

georgelee5786

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Don't hate just because I am cooler, and have more rizz in my pinky toe in one instance than you in your whole body over your lifetime.
Counterpoint: CURSE OF RA ๐“€€ ๐“€ ๐“€‚ ๐“€ƒ ๐“€„ ๐“€… ๐“€† ๐“€‡ ๐“€ˆ ๐“€‰ ๐“€Š ๐“€‹ ๐“€Œ ๐“€ ๐“€Ž ๐“€ ๐“€ ๐“€‘ ๐“€’ ๐“€“ ๐“€” ๐“€• ๐“€– ๐“€— ๐“€˜ ๐“€™ ๐“€š ๐“€› ๐“€œ ๐“€ ๐“€ž ๐“€Ÿ ๐“€  ๐“€ก ๐“€ข ๐“€ฃ ๐“€ค ๐“€ฅ ๐“€ฆ ๐“€ง ๐“€จ ๐“€ฉ ๐“€ช ๐“€ซ ๐“€ฌ ๐“€ญ ๐“€ฎ ๐“€ฏ ๐“€ฐ ๐“€ฑ ๐“€ฒ ๐“€ณ ๐“€ด ๐“€ต ๐“€ถ ๐“€ท ๐“€ธ ๐“€น ๐“€บ ๐“€ป ๐“€ผ ๐“€ฝ ๐“€พ ๐“€ฟ ๐“€ ๐“ ๐“‚ ๐“ƒ ๐“„ ๐“… ๐“† ๐“‡ ๐“ˆ ๐“‰ ๐“Š ๐“‹ ๐“Œ ๐“ ๐“Ž ๐“ ๐“ ๐“‘ ๐“€„ ๐“€… ๐“€†
 

Deeprotsorcerer

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Anon's going somewhere. The greatest stink the majority of people bring up about representation being shoehorned in or forced involve direct alterations of preexisting stories. That's something I honestly don't care either way about unless the character's race was a significant part of said story but hey.

As for the importance of representation itself? Yeah, it's pretty important on a big-picture sociological scale, but it goes beyond checking boxes or throwing tokens in an effort to farm karma points (if you do this, you'll make your story worse, in fact). Our worldviews are a culmination of everything we've seen and we're taught. The art we consume has an effect on us because our ratty animal brains have evolved to project into hypothetical situations and empathize with people that don't exist. Children, in particular, are more susceptible to its effects, but even people that can "tell the difference between real life and fiction" aren't completely immune.

I could rattle on and on about the subject, but that'd be boooooring.

If you're not involved in the social sciences, the only thing you need to know is that the issue is implementation. The greatest stories that have representation just have good chops with characters that are minorities. The objective is normalization, so let their portrayals be normal.
 

ZukoMee

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It's important to American Leftists. But I find them pathetic so whatever.

Personally, just follow the source material and cast people/animate people who actually look like the characters described, and all is well.

For some reason, this seems extremely hard for people in entertainment despite the fact that this should be the standard bare minimum.
 
D

Deleted member 54065

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Is it needed in my story? If yes, then I include it.

Do I need my characters to represent everyone from every shape and every color? No. Unless I'm writing about various Earth races and various political spectrum, I won't be made to include what I don't want to write about.

Don't force something that is out of shape. It'll only make it look stupid. Common sense is always the way to go.
 

Roseofblades

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My thoughts are twofold on this topic. As a lesbian and the sister of a transwoman, I cannot stress enough how important representation overall is. All media is saturated with Cis-het stuff and forces anything that strays away from this into the category of other. It is vital that young people see others like them so that they know they aren't freaks and they can find common ground with others. All the people of the alphabet club have always existed, but seeing others like them in movies, in comics, and in stories is one of the most validating things.

Now, all of that being said, Representation done to "check a box" is one of the most terrible things that exists. In fiction it makes one-dimensional characters whose sole existence revolves around some aspect of their personality that sets them apart from others. It "crams it down the throats (you right-wingers love this phrase... so here ya go)" of those who see it and cements that specific type of person as other. If I'm going to include a trans character, I do it because that is a based on a real person I have met and they left a strong enough impression on me and I care about them enough to make a character based on them. I will never ever ever write characters that have specific traits for the sole purpose of checking boxes and getting them into the story. I may have trans characters, or asexual ones, but those things have zero relevance to the plot and they aren't done in a way that says "HEY LOOK AT ME I'M TRANS!"

Lastly, I am very glad for this topic. It lets me know who to add to my ignore list for the future. :blobthumbsup:

Edit: All of what I said is just as true for Race as well.
 
D

Deleted member 54065

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Now, all of that being said, Representation done to "check a box" is one of the most terrible things that exists. In fiction it makes one-dimensional characters whose sole existence revolves around some aspect of their personality that sets them apart from others. It "crams it down the throats (you right-wingers love this phrase... so here ya go)" of those who see it and cements that specific type of person as other. If I'm going to include a trans character, I do it because that is a based on a real person I have met and they left a strong enough impression on me and I care about them enough to make a character based on them. I will never ever ever write characters that have specific traits for the sole purpose of checking boxes and getting them into the story. I may have trans characters, or asexual ones, but those things have zero relevance to the plot and they aren't done in a way that says "HEY LOOK AT ME I'M TRANS!"
Yeah, exactly this. I think this is what turns people away from contemporary "entertainment" nowadays: the Checklist.

If one would write about gay/lesbian character, look past their orientation and make them an actual part of the cast, instead of just putting them there to please critics.
 

TsumiHokiro

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Are you writing Social Critic? Does your story require diverse characters? Are you writing about a specific minority? Perhaps you are writing about the Majority? Don't mistake Government Policies with Literary Work. The first one should be worried about the Big Scene, while the second one is worried about a Small Scene. You are never going to manage to write an all-encompassing Literary Work SOLO. After all, a single head is only capable of only so much thinking (this includes research, writing capability, editing, etc.)

A novel, book, series, porn story should not try to be more than it proposes to be: the portrayal of a selected "fictional reality". And if you are writing non-fiction, even more reason you are not going to put every people inside your story: you have selected people to portray, and not every damn one.
 

Roseofblades

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If one would write about gay/lesbian character, look past their orientation and make them an actual part of the cast, instead of just putting them there to please critics.
Yes! To me, sexual orientation, gender, and race are things that would appear on a bio sheet next to height, weight, eye color, hair color, right handed, left handed, etc. It's a trait of that character but never done with any intent beyond telling who that character is as a person.

Now, the issue I foresee so many directors, authors, and anyone who produces content bring up is: "Why should I include those characters at all?"

If it doesn't make sense for the story to have a gay black man instead of a straight white one, then keep the character as a straight white one. If the piece is intentionally trying to push the boundaries or make a statement regarding social commentary, then yes, change it to a gay black man. But again, don't do it to check a box.

Otherwise, if you're trying to just get a diverse cast to actually appear like a group of different people who might actually hang out together, then... it gets more challenging. If I read something that has a lesbian character, I'm going to almost immediately relate to that character far more than others. Same reason I typically read stories with female leads. I will include diversity in my cast because I do want the person struggling with their gender issues to see that it's OK to be trans and not be seen as abnormal, but I also strive to not get lost in attempting to please everyone and just write real, relatable characters who just happen to have traits that some may identify with.
 

Tyranomaster

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I have a take and an observation on the topic. My take - write a character and a story and make it good. I understand how some people feel excluded or different for one reason or another. The point of most characters that are good are that they are "sympathetic" not "identical". If you can sympathize with the critical aspect of a main character in a situation, then they are a well written character, regardless of their other traits or flaws. Hell, my main character isn't human (or human adjacent). I have about 1600 active readers. Those people are NOT represented by the character, but they can sympathize with aspects of them.

I've never had issue "putting myself in the shoes" of characters with different genders, orientations, races, or species. I do not, however, have to empathize with a character who does something stupid or entirely self-serving. There is a difference between a character who has goals, and a character who IS a goal (the aforementioned check box).

My biggest personal gripe with most of this is that individuals have the freedom to identify however they want, and most people choose to make their identity the smallest possible group. Something like "I'm a trans quadriplegic with two souls who goes by Amfur/Amfurry". You've CHOSEN to be a hyperminority at that point if you make that your identity. I could identify as "A Factorio and Dota player and a Writer". That's pretty small also. Then I too could have issues with representation. I don't though. I identify first and foremost as an American, and a midwesterner shortly under that. That is a pretty big group that I choose to identify as. (My big gripe is that often times people put themselves in a hyper segregated minority, rather than any number of majorities they are actually in first).

My observation is that Hollywood and Netflix have screwed themselves. There are examples in history of diversity done right. I don't remember the movie, but someone said "If this was made today, conservatives would say it's woke, but because it's old they don't."

That is correct, they would, it's because the well is now poisoned. Imagine you make the new Ghostbusters (with the women), and it bombs. It's bad writing, mediocre acting, in a story that wasn't asked for, in a series that was already established. Then you tell people the reason it bombed isn't those things, but that people hate diversity.

Now imagine you live along a nice lake, you fish there, you relax etc. A company comes in, and starts building hotels all around the lake, industrializes the area, and puts in a bunch of parking lots, and the lake is overfished and becomes unpopular. You tell the company that they ruined the lake, and they tell you that actually, your unwillingness to share the lake is what ruined it. Just look at this other lake that wasn't ruined in the past. You then feel obligated to warn people that this company "might" ruin other lakes. Further, you're now mad, and any hotel around any lake makes you suspicious that it might be bad.

The water hole is now poisoned. It's impossible to see it any other way. Any "bad" movie will have the diverse cast blamed. Even if it wasn't the cause. To the writers there isn't a way back either, because the only way back that they could conceive is to actually exclude diversity of any kind for 5 or 10 years until people forget about forced diversity (which would be even worse). The real way back is for the writers and or actors to admit they fucked up on bad films (hint, they won't), so they'll continue the blame cycle.

Hollywood basically swallowed the poison pill on this one. They can rot in hell for trying to use minorities as a shield for their own poor writing.
 

Jerynboe

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The worst form of checkboxing is lazy race swaps imo. It seems patronizing to me, but is currently in vogue. Race matters. Very few cultures in history disagreed. Writing every setting with the demographics of modern american cities with no explanation is lazy, and fairly inflammatory.
My favorite example is the Witcher TV show. Both race (especially nilfgaard vs the Northern Kingdoms) and species are very important to the people in universe. What if theyโ€™d made all elves asian? There are more than enough Asian actors who would be thrilled at the opportunity. What if Nilfgaardians were black (perhaps even including Ciri being mixed race)? Iโ€™m sure it would have had its own landmines, but wouldnโ€™t it help to give each major cultural group a clear marker?
Youโ€™d get at least as much representation this way, and it would serve to emphasize the worldbuilding instead of distracting from it. Of course the question of โ€œwhy isnโ€™t medieval pseudo Poland more white?โ€ Would still be asked and still be a valid question, but there would be a much better answer to that question than the purely external-to-the-story explanation of real world check boxes.
 
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