the problem with originality

[grandiddykane]

I think that when it comes to cliche, people define cliche typically as predictable. And a story being predictable isn't a bad thing in of itself. It's when it's so predictable that you've essentially read the same story before that it really becomes an issue.

Stories should be all about combining various ideas in a way that is unique in it's own way. If a story takes ideas which are cliche and predictable and applies them in ways that are unique and creative, or combines ideas that haven't been combined before - then even if it has those cliche ideas, the story itself isn't cliche.

Why are there so many isekai series? "X in another world." Replace the X with anything. Reincarnated as a "Insert particular type of monster here", for example. Or "Insert job title here" reincarnated in another world.

When we see someone who is reincarnated as a monster or as a particular race in an isekai, we typically might think it's overdone and boring. However if the story is able to really dive deep into the specifics of it's premise, then it becomes unique in of itself. There are a whole bunch of different things that one might be reincarnated as, and so long as the story is intriguing then at least some people will read it. We've probably seen stories where characters were reincarnated as bugs, vampires, dragons, slimes, goblins, orcs, etc. We've seen stories where characters were reincarnated as heroes of course, but I've also seen some where they were reincarnated not as heroes but as normal people with specific roles or jobs. And once again, this is dependant on the author's abilitiy to take such a role and make it interesting. Also, there is the concept of what the character's job was in their previous life, which might give the story a unique twist.

But lets take the average isekai series. Average person reincarnated in a normal fantasy world as a hero with the responsibility to "Stop the evil beings from taking over the world by defeating the demon lord" or something like that.

Well even with these typical and cliche types of stories, worldbuilding can make them interesting. Use of unique characters and methods of doing things can make a story stand out from the others with the same premise. I mean, as writers we should be building entire societies and histories for our stories. So how could we make it exactly the same as everyone elses? It's an impossibility if we actually think about it enough. Sure we might take influence from others, but it should never be exactly the same.

Point here: If a story isn't unique in any way, and if you can literally predict the story from it's beginning, then it's a bad thing. I read a manga once where some guy commented on how cliche it was and gave an entire prediction on how the story would go from chapter 1.

The story was axed on chapter 19 and cut short, therefore they sorts speedran through to the end and fast forwarded in time, recapping all the things that "Would have happened" if the story was allowed to take it's full course. Needless to say, the guy who predicted this was almost correct in everything he predicted. That's when being cliche is a problem.

my stance on this is to take what you get. don't like it? drop it. it's what i do. but what i do not do is leave reviews under books giving them one star reviews because they sucked and were predictable like other people tend to do.

and the reason is this. the only reason you find the story cliche or predictable in the first place is because you've seen enough of the genre, but what about for the people who are just getting into it?

what you find cliche and predictable, they might not, but because you rated it poorly, the person seeing it may not want to give the book a chance. you know how easily impressionable kids or teens and even some young adults are, right? trust me when i say they aren't reading your wall of text rant review but instead are focusing on the pretty star rating. and if they see enough of those one or two or three star ratings, they're going to think the story sucks in general and not want to read it.

do you see the point i'm trying to make here? one man's trash is another man's treasure. to me, calling a book cliche or predictable in your review isn't a valid point of criticism.

example. when i was a kid, i loved the sht out of fairy tail. but now? i could hardly stomach it. but that doesn't mean there aren't those out there who are even older than myself with more developed tastes who actually enjoy it themselves. really it all boils down to taste, views, and how fresh you are to the genre.

 

[D.S.Nate]

Yeah, when you get down to it nothing is original anyways, and on top of that anything that seems original to you is only a matter of perspective. So anyone who's writing seeking originally is on a fool's errand.

What I feel is important is how you portray that idea, how you approach the theme or topic with your own views and voice. That is what's most important.

Funny enough I did a podcast on this last week lol

 

[KoyukiMegumi]

Yeah, when you get down to it nothing is original anyways, and on top of that anything that seems original to you is only a matter of perspective. So anyone who's writing seeking originally is on a fool's errand.

What I feel is important is how you portray that idea, how you approach the theme or topic with your own views and voice. That is what's most important.

Funny enough I did a podcast on this last week lol

Originality is in the beholder's eye. Much like beauty.

 

[Leyligne]

I remember someone telling me about a tabletop rpg where air and water weren’t essential, they were drugs keeping people from gaining the power of players. People get some weird ideas.

Read a book once about peddling screenplays to Hollywood, basic tl;dr was 100 pages exactly or it goes straight into the trash, describable as hit movie A meets profitable movie B starring box office draw or it won’t get made. Originality doesn’t sell. Looking original while still being very familiar and relatable, that sells.

 

[CupcakeNinja]

what makes something cliche? no, seriously. can someone please, in their own words, define that for me? i'm having a little trouble narrowing down its meaning myself. here's where i'm having trouble: if i'm not mistaken, isn't the air we breathe cliche? or the water we drink, as well? i'm dead serious. can't this be applied to just about anything? but that doesn't mean all things unoriginal have to be bad, now does it? for example, those things i just mentioned, air and water, are essential to our continued existence. video games and their mechanics are overused, are they not? but you still play and enjoy them, nonetheless, don't you?

i don't understand why something must be completely original in order for it to get the pass. how old are you guys, anyway? i ask because sadly, there comes a point in time where you've seen just about everything this world has to offer, and from that point forward, you're not going to be using the word original, or "a breath of fresh air," as often as you did to describe whatever piece of media it is you're consuming now compared to when you were younger.

but this isn't a bad thing. for example, when you open up a pack of pokemon cards, you're prone to drawing a couple of repeats, correct? but what if, out of all those repeats, one of those cards is a rare? doesn't that make it all worth it?

another example. what if you're favorite book met its conclusion years ago and you haven't found anything like it since. what would you do if one day you finally came across something just like it? would you a. call it an unoriginal, ripoff, or b. rejoice in the fact that you practically get the chance to read your favorite book again?

this is why i decided to read eragon, despite people saying it was a ripoff of lord of the rings. i'm going to be honest with you, i didn't like (like at all) the lord of the rings movies, but i will give it a second change and check out the books because usually they add important details that were missing from the movies that make things overall more enjoyable or understandable. i played the games though (shadow of mordor, shadow of war) and those were pretty kick ass.

lol ergon and lord of the rings have nothing in common except the BAREST of themes. Dark lords, heroes, dragon? check. And that's it. Its written entirely differently

 

[Cipiteca396]

Cliché - TV Tropes

A cliché is a phrase, motif, trope, or other element within an artistic work that has become common enough to be seen as an expected part of a work. This is very subjective and dependent on the consumer's culture and knowledge level: for …

tvtropes.org

For me personally, I'd like to tack on one little thing. A cliché is 'bad' when you simply throw it in because 'everyone else is doing it, and everybody loves it'. Ironically, some of you are making that mistake in this thread. A cliché is meant to convey an idea, so if you have no idea what the meaning of the cliché you're trying to use is, it feels wrong.

That's in addition to people just getting bored of reading the same text word for word in twelve stories, though. If your story relies on your reader never having seen something similar before, then of course people who have seen it before won't like it. If possible, aim for something that the reader can appreciate even if they have seen it before. Who knows, they might actually reread your story instead of forgetting it existed after it's finished.

 

[EternalSunset0]

lol ergon and lord of the rings have nothing in common except the BAREST of themes. Dark lords, heroes, dragon? check. And that's it. Its written entirely differently

If anything, people say it's more comparable to A New Hope.

 

[Biggest-Kusa-Out-There]

This talk is not really original, is it? What a cliche thread... heh.

All of these originality issues and what becomes a cliche can be summarized with Gigguk's video "Life Cycle of an Anime Fan".

 

[greyblob]

isn't originality an ever ending cycle? some work outshines the rest, and others try to replicate its elements resulting in cliches. eventually another work, using the original as a base, outshines the rest yet again. and the cycle continues.

 

[Jayrayme6]

you and i are talking about two different people. i'm talking about people who actually care about originality in their stories. and no, i'm not even talking about a completely fresh take, just the same ole, same ole with a twist, as you said. but you have to admit that even with that, not everyone fancies the idea of blatant regurgitation. have you not seen the reviews of some (majority) isekai/litrpg/smut shit where people find issue with it not being original enough? if not, then i applaud you for your ability to find only everything of the highest caliber of quality.

I do care about originality but I don't get views :(. might write something more to market after

 

[ElijahRyne]

In the most abstract originality does not matter. The thing that matters is entertainment. Entertainment is found if you enjoy what you are writing. If something is completely original, but not entertaining why bother. If something is not original and entertaining why bother.

So just write what you like to write and if others enjoy it cool, if not it is still cool, because you enjoy it.

Yet, originality is everywhere. Even in similar things you will find original concepts, ideas, twists, etc. The second you start doubting your originality is tough, but you should remember something.

Originality is found in the minutiae of works. From the small details to how things are explained, they are all unique. There might be similar characters, motivations scenarios, etc. but, it stops there. As long as what is happening makes sense to you, that is what matters.

If things still feel unoriginal then go back and find where. Once you have found the ‘unoriginal’ thing, find the original source.
If a scene feels cliche, that means that it feels like it lost its meaning, so all you need to do is make it matter.

 

[K5Rakitan]

Cliché is fine, but when it turns into a stereotype, that's when it becomes harmful.

 

[TotallyHuman]

Well, yeah. Most of us wouldn't even hang around here if we didn't like certain cliches

 

[Deleted member 42060]

Writing is like a science experiment. Originality comes when the scientist wants a revolutionary technology that no one has built before—but that isn’t always guaranteed. Original experiments can either succeed or fail, simply because it’s original, right? There are failed original experiments just as there are successful original experiments. The latter only succeeded because the scientist knew how to execute it well. The former failed because the scientist executed it badly.

Sure, someone would say that nothing is original, but I, for one, believe that writing something original is healthy for the world of writing, even if it doesn’t gain you any views. If you’ve written a magical power that no one has written before, and you executed it well—that’s good. That’s how you revolutionize stories. When other writers like your original idea, they’ll try to alter it or even improve it. Then one of them will start writing their own original idea. It’s a cycle of unoriginality and originality.

In conclusion, originality is important. If your originality fails, you can always hit it at a different angle until you execute it well. That’s the point of trial and error—just like a science experiment.

(Also, about the clichés—yes, everything is cliché. Life has always been cliché, and people read stories that can help deal with the monotonous cliches of life—to see other interesting clichés. And if they’re tired of one cliché, they’re going to move to another cliché. It’s just that.)​

 

[KiraMinoru]

I do care about originality but I don't get views :(. might write something more to market after

One of your main problems is the cover. Nothing about it would make me want to read it. The puke green makes me feel a bit sick, vibrant colors would work better in drawing people in. The frame around the image is off putting and the title typography and placement on it feels very bland. The core image itself could use a lot of touching up to make it better. Applying some filters to it to get some better coloring would be best. But just seeing a tree is still pretty boring and bland. It needs more going for it than just the tree.

The tragedy tag also isn’t doing you any favours in getting people to read it.

As for the title, I don’t think it’s doing anything for you. Arbolarbre, nobody knows what they are or cares. “If a tree falls in a forest, does the mad king it fell on make a sound?” Personally I’d make something stupid like that for a title. Yeah, it’s stupid, but would it work at pulling people in to read out of curiosity? It probably would.

 

[Agentt]

What's so depressing about it?

Not quite depressing, more like confusing. If you really have no idea on what to do, and are starting from scratch, such varied opinions could just demotivate you

 

[SailusGebel]

Not quite depressing, more like confusing. If you really have no idea on what to do, and are starting from scratch, such varied opinions could just demotivate you

Well, if you look at it from a different angle, you can pick an opinion that suits you the most. No one is forcing you to listen and agree with each and every opinion.

 

[gaylolis]

my main problem with originality is how each of the original ideas are different and not everything will appeal to me.

i would pick ones with a cliche idea over an original one if it's the only one that caught my interest.

but if i found both stories that appeal, whether it's original or cliche', i would still pick both since finding something that caught my attention isn't that easy.

 

[NiKlaus826]

what makes something cliche? no, seriously. can someone please, in their own words, define that for me? i'm having a little trouble narrowing down its meaning myself. here's where i'm having trouble: if i'm not mistaken, isn't the air we breathe cliche? or the water we drink, as well? i'm dead serious. can't this be applied to just about anything? but that doesn't mean all things unoriginal have to be bad, now does it? for example, those things i just mentioned, air and water, are essential to our continued existence. video games and their mechanics are overused, are they not? but you still play and enjoy them, nonetheless, don't you?

i don't understand why something must be completely original in order for it to get the pass. how old are you guys, anyway? i ask because sadly, there comes a point in time where you've seen just about everything this world has to offer, and from that point forward, you're not going to be using the word original, or "a breath of fresh air," as often as you did to describe whatever piece of media it is you're consuming now compared to when you were younger.

but this isn't a bad thing. for example, when you open up a pack of pokemon cards, you're prone to drawing a couple of repeats, correct? but what if, out of all those repeats, one of those cards is a rare? doesn't that make it all worth it?

another example. what if you're favorite book met its conclusion years ago and you haven't found anything like it since. what would you do if one day you finally came across something just like it? would you a. call it an unoriginal, ripoff, or b. rejoice in the fact that you practically get the chance to read your favorite book again?

this is why i decided to read eragon, despite people saying it was a ripoff of lord of the rings. i'm going to be honest with you, i didn't like (like at all) the lord of the rings movies, but i will give it a second change and check out the books because usually they add important details that were missing from the movies that make things overall more enjoyable or understandable. i played the games though (shadow of mordor, shadow of war) and those were pretty kick ass.

Clichés comes about when certain abstract 'concepts' is seen naturally appearing repeatedly in a given setting. That statement is kinda dense but i am unmotivated to explain it sorry lol

 

[rain-090]

I guess everthing narrows down on how you make use of said cliche.

But cliche is pretty much what you already or expect from a event.

Examplo. Fight bandits, heard about girl, go to save girl, girl is princess/important, get great reward, she falls in love with mc.

A twist? You go save her, you find every bandit dead and the girl free, she confuses you with a bandot, you fight, both escape but hve a grudge with eachother.

Depends on how you use it, saw a rip off the gamer and the author didnt even bother to change the first dungeon, the first monster, boss, drop just felt lazy all there was to do is chage ogre to like wolf or something and thats it.

There is also levels of cliche and the cliches you expect and can tolerate.

I hate vampire MC because its always the same mental/character development with not wanting to drink blood, thirst then doing it and ta da! Your mc is no longer human and acts like a superior person.

On the vampire part, what do you think a better way of doing it would be?