Ugly Characters in Gaming and Fiction

Anon2024

????????? (???/???)
Joined
Apr 18, 2022
Messages
3,379
Points
183
Before I begin this post, I want to state a caveat that beauty itself is in the eye of the beholder and we all have different standards... but with that said...

There are too many ugly female characters in western games right now that are being marketed as attractive. Look, I'm not trying to practice lookism, but this is something that I've thought about when comparing story characters in multiple fictions, and multiple mediums.

Asian stories, whether Japanese or Chinese value beauty in their characters a great deal. Western video game developers, and to an extent the new media seem to value making women look ugly, but at the same time treating them as they're beautiful even if they're butt ugly... However, what I want to point out is that an ugly female character can be compelling and interesting if they could actually accept the fact that the character is ugly and think more about how the character is rather than pushing some stereotype.

I'll give an example.
Last of Us 2
Spoilers ahead:

So I know a lot of people hated this game because it killed off a fan favorite character named Joel and Neil Druckman was kind of an idiot in the way he marketed it.

Personally, I hated the marketing and wasn't a fan of how the rival of Ellie who killed Joel (whose name I have forgotten looked). By traditional beauty standards, she's not pretty at all, but I found her to be a very compelling character despite that.

Angry at Joel killing her father who was going to operate on Ellie, the other side of the firefly story, it was quite literally a good compelling reason to take revenge, even if most of us took Joel's side in part 1 having played it. Over the course of the game, it was never pushed that she was somehow attractive, and except for her boyfriend who might just like girls who look like her (everyone has different beauty standards), no one was dropping off to try and hit on her.

Granted, one would have to like revenge stories and all the complex emotions that go with it to enjoy this game (I obviously enjoy revenge quite a bit as well as all the fall out from it as long as I feel it's somehow justified), but overall she was a three dimensional character who had her own perspective and despite in my opinion being ugly, was a good character that made the narrative enjoyable.

I guess my point is that a game like Fable, or some other game where ugly characters act 'cute' doesn't suit it the character well. It feels more like the developer is trying to change beauty standards or shame people for appreciating beauty, rather than trying to write a compelling narrative since the majority of characters these days are the generic charismatic type.

As for the other types of stories.
I've noticed that in Chinese novels:

- Male characters are always tall and good looking.
- They're always tall and good looking in western video games too.
- The male character lacks wealth and status, so good looks in this can be considered 'virtue' in some way

Thus there isn't really anything different between western and eastern media when it comes to males.

However, in Chinese novels with female protagonists. She's almost always this beauty that makes everyone jealous. It's kind of hilarious how cliche it is...

But, in a sense it also shows how much tastes have changed.
I think in the early 00's the male Japanese Lead wasn't good looking and somehow got the beautiful girl, same with a lot of American movies/shows where the male lead was kind of a loser and got the girl he wanted.

Makes me wonder if we're going in the direction of a loser ugly girl getting the handsome white knight these days. I see that a lot on korean manwha written for females.

I don't know, just some observations and wanting to know what others might be thinking of it.
Granted, you might think those female characters I find ugly to be beautiful... so it might be a completely different discussion.
 

NotaNuffian

This does spark joy.
Joined
Nov 26, 2019
Messages
3,672
Points
183
@Anon2023 as usual, beauty is subjective.

But I do find it funny of how the west is pushing agenda.

In the end, it is fiction and we all want to look at beautiful people because they are appealing to the eyes.

But if there is the lack of character, then I am at best staring at a beautiful piece of cardboard.

Is it beautiful? Yes. Will it make me retain memories? Probably not.

I think the Last of Us II selling point is somewhat correct, with "stance" being a major factor, where you stand for is who you would root and think for.
 

Reinya

Active member
Joined
Jun 17, 2020
Messages
9
Points
43
Well ugly characters are created so that all sorts of feminists don't trigger like "they're over-sexualised, unrealistic, it's disrespectful to ugly women!". I think that's why they make them like that
 

Sabruness

Cultured Yuri Connoisseur
Joined
Dec 23, 2018
Messages
830
Points
133
i didnt mind Abby's looks. her older version was a bit borderline for me but her slightly younger fit-yet-not-muscular version is quite cute. .

the better example of objectively ugly is Aloy from Horizon.

on a general basis, i think you have a point in that there does seem to be a push to treat objectively bad characters as the most stunning beauties (ie objectively ugly or very obese or very super stick thin skinny). which misses the entire point originally intended by the people pushing it.
 

Jamminrabbit

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 24, 2019
Messages
198
Points
103
Ah, yes. Discussions of beauty standards in video games. Let's not forget the fit everyone threw about how Thor looked in GW Ragnarok. There was widespread outrage about 'pushing an agenda' and 'woke destroying masculinity'.
My opinion on the Aloy and the Fable character's appearances is you're being misdirected. People who hate their looks only know to use that same image over and over again.

For Aloy, it's like if you took that one bad picture and your friends jokingly called you ugly, then everyone else ran with it genuinely.

For Fable, you're going to have customizable characters. It's like if someone playing Dark Souls made the ugliest character possible (you know the looks) and pieced together a trailer. Sure, whoever made that trailer character looked like it was just randomized and they went with it, they totally could have made a better-looking character. But the gameplay was clearly the point.

I also want to stress that we shouldn't be worried about ugly characters in Fable. That's a huge distraction. What we should really be worried about is the studio behind the new game. They never made an RPG before! THEY HAVE ONLY EVER MADE FORZA GAMES! WHY?! THAT'S THE REAL PROBLEM HERE!

For Abby, if you dislike her because she isn't playboy model looking ass and is more butch than your average woman, I better not see you going on pixiv or twitter and liking big muscle mommy arts. I grew up watching WWE of muscular women like Triss and Tara knocking the shit out of people, and that's what I want to see, not some Megan Fox face on the body of Marvel's Thor though I totally wouldn't mind it either.

1694943760565.png
 

NotaNuffian

This does spark joy.
Joined
Nov 26, 2019
Messages
3,672
Points
183
Ah, yes. Discussions of beauty standards in video games. Let's not forget the fit everyone threw about how Thor looked in GW Ragnarok. There was widespread outrage about 'pushing an agenda' and 'woke destroying masculinity'.
My opinion on the Aloy and the Fable character's appearances is you're being misdirected. People who hate their looks only know to use that same image over and over again.

For Aloy, it's like if you took that one bad picture and your friends jokingly called you ugly, then everyone else ran with it genuinely.

For Fable, you're going to have customizable characters. It's like if someone playing Dark Souls made the ugliest character possible (you know the looks) and pieced together a trailer. Sure, whoever made that trailer character looked like it was just randomized and they went with it, they totally could have made a better-looking character. But the gameplay was clearly the point.

I also want to stress that we shouldn't be worried about ugly characters in Fable. That's a huge distraction. What we should really be worried about is the studio behind the new game. They never made an RPG before! THEY HAVE ONLY EVER MADE FORZA GAMES! WHY?! THAT'S THE REAL PROBLEM HERE!

For Abby, if you dislike her because she isn't playboy model looking ass and is more butch than your average woman, I better not see you going on pixiv or twitter and liking big muscle mommy arts. I grew up watching WWE of muscular women like Triss and Tara knocking the shit out of people, and that's what I want to see, not some Megan Fox face on the body of Marvel's Thor though I totally wouldn't mind it either.

View attachment 22163
...

Am I bad to say that Thor looks like me and I like it? I mean, he looks more handsome than me.
 

SailusGebel

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 7, 2020
Messages
9,434
Points
233
Yes. They are ugly and I don't like it. Same for ugly males that should've been handsome.
Ah, yes. Discussions of beauty standards in video games. Let's not forget the fit everyone threw about how Thor looked in GW Ragnarok. There was widespread outrage about 'pushing an agenda' and 'woke destroying masculinity'.
My opinion on the Aloy and the Fable character's appearances is you're being misdirected. People who hate their looks only know to use that same image over and over again.

For Aloy, it's like if you took that one bad picture and your friends jokingly called you ugly, then everyone else ran with it genuinely.

For Fable, you're going to have customizable characters. It's like if someone playing Dark Souls made the ugliest character possible (you know the looks) and pieced together a trailer. Sure, whoever made that trailer character looked like it was just randomized and they went with it, they totally could have made a better-looking character. But the gameplay was clearly the point.

I also want to stress that we shouldn't be worried about ugly characters in Fable. That's a huge distraction. What we should really be worried about is the studio behind the new game. They never made an RPG before! THEY HAVE ONLY EVER MADE FORZA GAMES! WHY?! THAT'S THE REAL PROBLEM HERE!

For Abby, if you dislike her because she isn't playboy model looking ass and is more butch than your average woman, I better not see you going on pixiv or twitter and liking big muscle mommy arts. I grew up watching WWE of muscular women like Triss and Tara knocking the shit out of people, and that's what I want to see, not some Megan Fox face on the body of Marvel's Thor though I totally wouldn't mind it either.

View attachment 22163
 

HungrySheep

I like yuri
Joined
Jun 19, 2022
Messages
384
Points
78
Roleplaying games where you have a custom character like Baldur's Gate 3, Starfield, Skyrim, etc. or are supposed to roleplay a character (with impactful choices) like the Mass Effect series should give you the ability to create a character to your specifications, whether that be ugly or beautiful.

Otherwise it doesn't really matter. If I see a game that forces me to play a character I don't want to look at for the duration of the game, I just won't play it. Other people can, but that's not my business.
 

Jamminrabbit

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 24, 2019
Messages
198
Points
103
Yes. They are ugly and I don't like it. Same for ugly males that should've been handsome.

You're legit fked in the future then. Because people like yourself aren't getting into the game development, but guess who are?
Yes, those people. There's no avoiding it either, your game lists will continue to dwindle until NBA2k24 is all you can play and VCR tapes of playboy is all you can watch!
 

HungrySheep

I like yuri
Joined
Jun 19, 2022
Messages
384
Points
78
You're legit fked in the future then. Because people like yourself aren't getting into the game development, but guess who are?
Yes, those people. There's no avoiding it either, your game lists will continue to dwindle until NBA2k24 is all you can play and VCR tapes of playboy is all you can watch!
Then @SailusGebel can start getting into JRPGs if they aren't already into them. Problem solved.
 

Jamminrabbit

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 24, 2019
Messages
198
Points
103
Then @SailusGebel can start getting into JRPGs if they aren't already into them. Problem solved.
Zero chance. I feel like if there are folks so easily triggered by looks, then they 100% won't survive western localized JRPGs and find every reason to scream about injecting woke agenda.
 

HungrySheep

I like yuri
Joined
Jun 19, 2022
Messages
384
Points
78
Zero chance. I feel like if there are folks so easily triggered by looks, then they 100% won't survive western localized JRPGs and find every reason to scream about injecting woke agenda.
Localization of the Trails series has been fine aside from minor typos that I've seen. Localization of Final Fantasy has been fine. Fan translation patches also exist.
 

SailusGebel

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 7, 2020
Messages
9,434
Points
233
You're legit fked in the future then. Because people like yourself aren't getting into the game development, but guess who are?
Yes, those people. There's no avoiding it either, your game lists will continue to dwindle until NBA2k24 is all you can play and VCR tapes of playboy is all you can watch!
Nah, gaming will be bought out by Chinese and they have somewhat the same standards of beauty. I'm not worried because of Tencent. Because of Tencent we will different types of problem, but it's not the topic of this thread. Also your examples of women wrestlers are strange to say the least. You seriously compare Tara and Triss?(Trish?) to Abby? Could've mentioned Chyna or Nicole Bass.
 

HungrySheep

I like yuri
Joined
Jun 19, 2022
Messages
384
Points
78
Nah, gaming will be bought out by Chinese and they have somewhat the same standards of beauty. I'm not worried because of Tencent. Because of Tencent we will different types of problem, but it's not the topic of this thread. Also your examples of women wrestlers are strange to say the least. You seriously compare Tara and Triss?(Trish?) to Abby? Could've mentioned Chyna or Nicole Bass.
On the topic of Chinese games, I remember an old Chinese MMO called Moonlight Blade which had pretty in-depth character customization similar to what we have in Black Desert Online. It was actually difficult to make an unattractive character in that game.
 

Jamminrabbit

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 24, 2019
Messages
198
Points
103
Nah, gaming will be bought out by Chinese and they have somewhat the same standards of beauty. I'm not worried because of Tencent. Because of Tencent we will different types of problem, but it's not the topic of this thread. Also your examples of women wrestlers are strange to say the least. You seriously compare Tara and Triss?(Trish?) to Abby? Could've mentioned Chyna or Nicole Bass.
In the west, we're allowed to access games like Huniepop and Cyberpunk 2077 without any censorship. In China, you're not allowed to have hot girls kissing or watch porn in your own home without a VPN. Imagine wanting Chinese overlords like Tencent to purity check your games and fiction LOL
 

SailusGebel

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 7, 2020
Messages
9,434
Points
233
In the west, we're allowed to access games like Huniepop and Cyberpunk 2077 without any censorship. In China, you're not allowed to have hot girls kissing or watch porn in your own home without a VPN. Imagine wanting Chinese overlords like Tencent to purity check your games and fiction LOL
Because of Tencent we will different types of problem, but it's not the topic of this thread.
Forgot to write have. Because of Tencent we will have different types of problem, but it's not the topic of this thread.
 

HungrySheep

I like yuri
Joined
Jun 19, 2022
Messages
384
Points
78
In the west, we're allowed to access games like Huniepop and Cyberpunk 2077 without any censorship. In China, you're not allowed to have hot girls kissing or watch porn in your own home without a VPN. Imagine wanting Chinese overlords like Tencent to purity check your games and fiction LOL
My guy, I lived in Hong Kong for 2 years. I BREATHE yuri. The CCP can't stop us all. Dunno how the BL community is doing there, but last time I checked they were selling like 600 page BL fanfics of Arknights characters so I think they're all good.

Edit: Also Mihoyo is a Chinese company and Honkai Impact 3rd literally has canon yuri couples.
 

SailusGebel

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 7, 2020
Messages
9,434
Points
233
Btw, since we were on the topic of female wrestlers. I'm perfectly okay if they make characters that look like Jade Cargill, Rhea Ripley, Tiffany Stratton(even before she got implants), Bianca Belair, Charlotte, Kaitlyn, Beth Phoenix. Even more okay if they make them look like Trish Stratus.
 

Jamminrabbit

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 24, 2019
Messages
198
Points
103
My guy, I lived in Hong Kong for 2 years. I BREATHE yuri. The CCP can't stop us all. Dunno how the BL community is doing there, but last time I checked they were selling like 600 page BL fanfics of Arknights characters so I think they're all good.

Edit: Also Mihoyo is a Chinese company and Honkai Impact 3rd literally has canon yuri couples.
Money is the language of love, and those companies are raking it in for the country.

Btw, since we were on the topic of female wrestlers. I'm perfectly okay if they make characters that look like Jade Cargill, Rhea Ripley, Tiffany Stratton(even before she got implants), Bianca Belair, Charlotte, Kaitlyn, Beth Phoenix. Even more okay if they make them look like Trish Stratus.
No chance. I think you're a liar. Aside from pre-implant Tiffany, if any of the other mentioned wrestlers were made into important reoccurring characters in fiction, you and just as many others would be wailing about non-conforming feminine beauty standards.
 
Top