Ugly Characters in Gaming and Fiction

[Lodur]

Damn... topic blew up while I slept.

Haven't you seen enough discussions of ugly characters, to know where this is going?

 

[Anon2024]

So, you like ugly bastards, huh? Again you and your love for NTR dammit!

On a serious note, I don't think good looking characters are self-inserts. I think it's the opposite, good looking characters are a part of the escapism, eye candies. MCs are usually mediocre because the majority of people can relate to them.

Also, I have a problem with ugly characters. The problem is that they don't try to fix their appearance. It's not about plastic surgeries. It's about losing excessive weight, taking care of your face and hair, maybe even applying some light makeup. Yet none of the ugly characters do it.

Ugly bastards are far more relatable than the good looking characters for most men.

 

[SailusGebel]

Ugly bastards are far more relatable than the good looking characters for most men.

I really want to argue with you, but I can't. You are right.

 

[Anon2024]

Haven't you seen enough discussions of ugly characters, to know where this is going?

-_-

I really want to argue with you, but I can't. You are right.

Well, we could say that the reason they're pushing ugly female characters is because the feminists who are being given vocal power relate to them better.

I honestly relate more to short unattractive male characters than I do to the tall good looking ones, so I don't really have an issue if some people like ugly characters due to relating to them. I just have an issue if those ugly characters are presented in a way that ruins my suspension of disbelief to the point where it kind of feels cringe.

 

[Tsuru]

Before I begin this post, I want to state a caveat that beauty itself is in the eye of the beholder and we all have different standards... but with that said...

There are too many ugly female characters in western games right now that are being marketed as attractive. Look, I'm not trying to practice lookism, but this is something that I've thought about when comparing story characters in multiple fictions, and multiple mediums.

Asian stories, whether Japanese or Chinese value beauty in their characters a great deal. Western video game developers, and to an extent the new media seem to value making women look ugly, but at the same time treating them as they're beautiful even if they're butt ugly... However, what I want to point out is that an ugly female character can be compelling and interesting if they could actually accept the fact that the character is ugly and think more about how the character is rather than pushing some stereotype.

I'll give an example.
Last of Us 2
Spoilers ahead:

Spoiler: Last of us 2 spoilers

So I know a lot of people hated this game because it killed off a fan favorite character named Joel and Neil Druckman was kind of an idiot in the way he marketed it.

Personally, I hated the marketing and wasn't a fan of how the rival of Ellie who killed Joel (whose name I have forgotten looked). By traditional beauty standards, she's not pretty at all, but I found her to be a very compelling character despite that.

Angry at Joel killing her father who was going to operate on Ellie, the other side of the firefly story, it was quite literally a good compelling reason to take revenge, even if most of us took Joel's side in part 1 having played it. Over the course of the game, it was never pushed that she was somehow attractive, and except for her boyfriend who might just like girls who look like her (everyone has different beauty standards), no one was dropping off to try and hit on her.

Granted, one would have to like revenge stories and all the complex emotions that go with it to enjoy this game (I obviously enjoy revenge quite a bit as well as all the fall out from it as long as I feel it's somehow justified), but overall she was a three dimensional character who had her own perspective and despite in my opinion being ugly, was a good character that made the narrative enjoyable.

I guess my point is that a game like Fable, or some other game where ugly characters act 'cute' doesn't suit it the character well. It feels more like the developer is trying to change beauty standards or shame people for appreciating beauty, rather than trying to write a compelling narrative since the majority of characters these days are the generic charismatic type.

As for the other types of stories.
I've noticed that in Chinese novels:

- Male characters are always tall and good looking.
- They're always tall and good looking in western video games too.
- The male character lacks wealth and status, so good looks in this can be considered 'virtue' in some way

Thus there isn't really anything different between western and eastern media when it comes to males.

However, in Chinese novels with female protagonists. She's almost always this beauty that makes everyone jealous. It's kind of hilarious how cliche it is...

But, in a sense it also shows how much tastes have changed.
I think in the early 00's the male Japanese Lead wasn't good looking and somehow got the beautiful girl, same with a lot of American movies/shows where the male lead was kind of a loser and got the girl he wanted.

Makes me wonder if we're going in the direction of a loser ugly girl getting the handsome white knight these days. I see that a lot on korean manwha written for females.

I don't know, just some observations and wanting to know what others might be thinking of it.
Granted, you might think those female characters I find ugly to be beautiful... so it might be a completely different discussion.

Cough

For information.
Even chinese readers/writers, stopped using "mega beautiful goddess" beauties in WNs. (well most of them that have good tastes)
Manhuas or translated novels are like 10years behind the current trends of chinese WNs.

Now its more trendy : to have FL "beautiful not that gorgeous but the more you look the more pleasing to the eye"
or the "kind girl that stay with poor/weak MC"
Or in other terms [the girl next door] vibes.
------------------------------------
Also in 2018, i once read a fav chinese novel, where the AUTHOR did a author note rant.
Explaining that : Now readers are picky. They can drop novels for any small reasons. Now you can't write the MC or FL not being pretty or you risk losing readers. "Do you really put yourself in the shoes of MC if he is mega handsome? Did you look at the mirror ? Why don't you go read [Doctor Lin] novel if you feel that you are so handsome, compared to complain here?"
+ "Nowadays you can't write any [green] (slang for = rape, ntr, cheating, stolen, or ex-boyfriend) plot or its immediate drop for readers"
+ "If the masterpieces of early years were published now compared to their time, most of them would flop" (ex : one famous martial arts old book-novel that even had cartoon on old chinese tvs, had the heroine being violated by a guy when she couldn't move, thinking its MC)
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BONUS :
Youjo Senki

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Also the reason they do "ugly" females in the west
is simply because of woke/politics

Funny comment : "They say people should feel proud of their bodies, but compared to real one the one in the video was still beautified, especially removing the double chin for example"

Chinese poster on the left :

If there is anyone that don't understand the reason it's different, they need to wash their face or probably go to sleep or undrunk.

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Meanwhile in japan :

Where even if OFFICIAL STAFF try to lie it's not "marriage rings", all fans call "bullshit" on it. Even creating memes :

 

[Bartun]

I'm a dinosaur but even I like beautiful girls.

 

[Anon2024]

I'm a dinosaur but even I like beautiful girls.

How about lizard men x beautiful girl stuff?

 

[K5Rakitan]

I've been living under a rock lately, so I have no idea what you are talking about without pictures.

 

[Anon2024]

I've been living under a rock lately, so I have no idea what you are talking about without pictures.

The rock is comfortable, stay there. Trust me.

 

[SailusGebel]

The rock is comfortable, stay there. Trust me.

 

[Bartun]

How about lizard men x beautiful girl stuff?

I prefer hooman x hooman. I was just adding to what you said that beauty is subjective but still there is a standard. Even though I belong to a completely different species still follow that standard of beauty, even though I might be considered ugly as a sin by most people's standards.

 

[CrimsonGenius]

The agenda. There are people that want to insert themselves in fiction instead being the viewer of that world. There are those that get offended if the girl is too pretty or not enough certain types of people. There are those that don't want to be seen as sex objects. That is the whole point of making alot of women less attractive. People want to be more than their looks and not seen as sex objects. But it is moving to the point of trying to insert your ideology into everything. Woke was trying to tell you there is racism and bad stuff, but once again people go the extra mile and ruin things again.

 

[RepresentingEnvy]

I prefer hooman x hooman. I was just adding to what you said that beauty is subjective but still there is a standard. Even though I belong to a completely different species still follow that standard of beauty, even though I might be considered ugly as a sin by most people's standards.

But sins are beautiful. I have a beautiful heart of gold. (humble)

Therefore, Bartun is beautiful dinosaur!

 

[Alfir]

Oh... I had plenty enough of uglies from Skyrim... Just saying, my bottom line is the fugly elves from Elder Scrolls. They are a nightmare. They are a true menace, outrightly destroying any guy's isekai ambitions.

Thankfully, mods exist.

 

[HungrySheep]

There is Yuri content in the game, but they're more of the fetish sort than genuine romance.

Angelica's problem as a character is over exaggerated by the community imo (esp Twitter/X), but I do agree with them somewhat. It hurts me that she never got expanded upon besides that one scene near the end of CS3. She mostly just flirts with any girl she encounters in a way it will be seen as a crime if it was done by a man.

Though, one could say she's just playing into her character trope which almost every character in Trails do (not a bad thing). Still wish she has more development though.

Yeah, I didn't really view Angelica's moments as "true" yuri, I suppose. I haven't played Hajimari yet though, but I hope she gets touched on a bit more there.

 

[Bartun]

But sins are beautiful. I have a beautiful heart of gold. (humble)

Therefore, Bartun is beautiful dinosaur!

 

[T.K._Paradox]

I agree people, because people have beauty standards for a reason.

We all have them no matter how virtuous we attempt to be by saying things like, "Everyone is perfect in their own special way!"

We aren't.

Some are more genetically gifted than others, and you know what? That is fine, it is okay to admit that a character is not conventionally attractive, let's just not pretend to call ugly beautiful and vice versa.

Now I have to state the obvious here for people can't get it through their thick skulls: there is nothing wrong with being ugly or beautiful, it is okay to not have a conventional standard of beauty.

People just like seeing or reading about beautiful characters, this doesn't mean ugly characters can't work just look at The Phantom from the Phantom of the Opera or Quasimodo from Disney's version of the Hunchback of Notre Dame.

And regardless of the apparent of the character at least write them to be entertaining that is what truly matters, a woman could be a 'jade skinned beauty' but if she has the personality of a cardboard fleshlight I probably will drop the story.

 

[MintiLime]

Is the Ellie you’re referring to this one: https://thelastofus.fandom.com/wiki/Ellie_Williams

Because I don’t think she’s ugly. Maybe not EXCEPTIONALLY beautiful, but for the apocalypse idk man. I just think she’s normal. I haven’t played the game, just my impressions on sight. If everyone kept insisting she was drop dead gorgeous however, I’d probably get annoyed and start considering her ugly.

I think we should keep in mind that there are different tastes, etc.

BUT SAYING THAT, I think the portrayal of “ugly” characters as beautiful is not exactly new. Growing up, all the girl movies like a Cinderella Story etc etc. it was all about how a makeover can get you a man (there were other themes but that’s the one that screams at you). Get rid of your glasses and change your outfit and boom! Now everyone notices you.

The change is before, a beautiful person played an “ugly” person that through some change became beautiful.

Now it’s a normal person, called beautiful, and the insistence is supposed to make them beautiful?

I think the best course of action is have normal people play normal people, with the romantic leads being normal people. No major imbalances. Having one partner be ugly and one beautiful with this fact STATED to us gives me bad vibes from a power dynamic perspective (think pity relationship vs. trophy wife/husband).

Sometimes looks can be a major driver of plot. The best example I liked was the oldish movie Penelope where a girl is cursed with a pig nose and gets together with a poor guy. Mostly because their personalities matched AND he wasn’t some beautiful and rich CEO that suddenly wanted to mess around with a “unique” person.

 

[SailusGebel]

Is the Ellie you’re referring to this one: https://thelastofus.fandom.com/wiki/Ellie_Williams

Because I don’t think she’s ugly. Maybe not EXCEPTIONALLY beautiful, but for the apocalypse idk man. I just think she’s normal. I haven’t played the game, just my impressions on sight. If everyone kept insisting she was drop dead gorgeous however, I’d probably get annoyed and start considering her ugly.

I think we should keep in mind that there are different tastes, etc.

BUT SAYING THAT, I think the portrayal of “ugly” characters as beautiful is not exactly new. Growing up, all the girl movies like a Cinderella Story etc etc. it was all about how a makeover can get you a man (there were other themes but that’s the one that screams at you). Get rid of your glasses and change your outfit and boom! Now everyone notices you.

The change is before, a beautiful person played an “ugly” person that through some change became beautiful.

Now it’s a normal person, called beautiful, and the insistence is supposed to make them beautiful?

I think the best course of action is have normal people play normal people, with the romantic leads being normal people. No major imbalances. Having one partner be ugly and one beautiful with this fact STATED to us gives me bad vibes from a power dynamic perspective (think pity relationship vs. trophy wife/husband).

Sometimes looks can be a major driver of plot. The best example I liked was the oldish movie Penelope where a girl is cursed with a pig nose and gets together with a poor guy. Mostly because their personalities matched AND he wasn’t some beautiful and rich CEO that suddenly wanted to mess around with a “unique” person.

I think he was talking about Abby.

Abby Anderson

Abigail "Abby" Anderson is the playable dual protagonist of The Last of Us Part II and a playable character in the No Return mode. A member of the Fireflies broken by tragedy when Joel Miller killed her father Jerry Anderson, Abby made it her mission to avenge Jerry's demise. However, it is only...

thelastofus.fandom.com

 

[MintiLime]

I think he was talking about Abby.

Abby Anderson

Abigail "Abby" Anderson is the playable dual protagonist of The Last of Us Part II and a playable character in the No Return mode. A member of the Fireflies broken by tragedy when Joel Miller killed her father Jerry Anderson, Abby made it her mission to avenge Jerry's demise. However, it is only...

thelastofus.fandom.com

Less pretty than Ellie, not hideous, but definitely suffering from lack of shower. I would not call particularly pretty