Why do many authors use covers that they got from Google?

[Minx]

Legally, wrong.

But realistically, broke.

Personally, I did it.



Once I earned enough money though, I don't mind commission an artist for the book cover. Rather, I WANTED it.

 

[LostLibrarian]

I personally dislike it and I would never do it. Simple reasoning: I imagine how it would be if others copied my story to an unknown site and use it to get some following or patrons. Would I like that? No. So for me, I end it with "Don't do unto others, what..."
But it's the same with a lot of other things, where people go from "nobody is doing anything" to "it's kind of a gray area" to "it's okay".


That said, I understand why people do it. I personally would just like for people to at least find the artist (it's not that hard in most cases) and link him. Even more so, a lot of artists are actually fine with it if you don't go for the biggest artists and ask nicely. For me it wasn't even about money but about spending that money early, because I didn't know whether I would continue writing the story I'm planning as second story. So I found a great image, wrote a nice message where I offered linking him directly on my frontpage, and that was it. Easy, I got a high quality cover for free, and it cost me one friendly conversation with an artist...

But in the end, it is what it is. And honestly, it's also not my job to judge others.
And I won't throw the first sone...

 

[S10]

because not everybody has the cash to commission art or the skills to make quality art?

plus i doubt SH or any members would get slammed with copyright as long as they dont legit publish their novels with borrowed art. it'd be just faster to ask them to remove the image. not to mention that i doubt if most artists would actually care enough to go after such a tiny matter.

First and foremost, most authors who are starting out don't have the money or convenience to draw or commission a cover. For example, us third world authors don't have much convenience of commissioning a cover for a story that might not be profitable at all.

Secondly, it's faster and easier apparently compared to drawing one and having to learn all those anatomy stuff. I myself cannot draw at all even if I try, I cannot draw human beings for some reason.

Authors grab their covers from Google simply because it's free and it looks great to fit their requirement for covers for their story. I'm not saying it's right, but given the financial situation of some of us, they had no other option but to do it. (Or their story would be without cover)

Also, most are not aware (or just vaguely aware) about copyrights.

Heck, even some government institutions in our country do grab images on Google without asking for the artist's permission.

The thing that annoys me alot if the fact that people don't ask the artist. If you cannot find the artist then really don't use it.
SH getting pixiv letters or other copyright letters will not be fun at all.

I have seen stories with 400k words without cover. Your story can manage.

 

[Deleted member 29316]

The thing that annoys me alot if the fact that people don't ask the artist. If you cannot find the artist then really don't use it.
SH getting pixiv letters or other copyright letters will not be fun at all.

I have seen stories with 400k words without cover. Your story can manage.

As I have said, they are not aware of copyrights, or vaguely aware about it. Or some are pure jackasses who thinks they won't get caught (going as far as to claim the artwork as their own).

Not everyone has the same mindset about covers. There were those who wanted one, but were not willing to pay the right price; like for example, they have the audacity to ask me repeatedly for free covers (different from what I offer, which is free and voluntary). I mean, come on...if those guys have the audacity to ask repeatedly for free covers, why don't they try making one themselves?

But no. They'd rather risk it. Oh well...

(Disclaimer: I'm talking about those clients from the 'other site' called D******A*t)

 

[tiaf]

Dislike it. I know the reasons why other people do it, but if you don’t have money then either work for it or use free to use alternatives. (I don’t mean google!) Every one who can write and post a story should be old enough to understand this and be able to search for a license free picture. Art is luxury and if you can’t pay for it then don’t use.
Also, when the artwork is not even fitting the story is when I go eyeroll.

a friend who came to this site before me and they had a bad experience with several users who claimed that they were making covers with copyrighted images

Made me remember this one incident. The thread I’m thinking of also offered to do covers for others. The covers were on a very high level. So good that authors who want to make money with their story might have considered to get a cover from them. That’s when the issue with copyright came up. (It was a very legit question of an author who wanted to take the offer but also planned to put their story on Patreon/Amazon)
Then it derailed into a discussion over copyright infringement possibilities, which quite often happens here as there are also a lot of artists visiting the forum.

they take using other people's art for personal gain/use very seriously and get on a lot of people's back

Some people take it seriously but most writers don’t. Which is quite sad since artists and authors are both content creators. All the authors with commercial intent I know never use art of unknown source as it it not safe for them.

I have seen stories with 400k words without cover. Your story can manage.

I know right? And what’s so bad with a simple cover with just a neatly formatted title? I simp for minimalism.

 

[Omnifarious]

Made me remember this one incident. The thread I’m thinking of also offered to do covers for others. The covers were on a very high level. So good that authors who want to make money with their story might have considered to get a cover from them. That’s when the issue with copyright came up.

Ah~ the drama of yester~year...
..
.
WUT? That was only 2 months ago!? I feel like I have aged a thousand years since...

 

[BenJepheneT]

I know right? And what’s so bad with a simple cover with just a neatly formatted title? I simp for minimalism.

I'm gonna be "that guy" for a second and say that's one out of a thousand. The reason those few stories with no covers got to where they are is most likely due to tags, short chapters and frequent uploads. Some formats or stories simply can't do those without hurting their story quality or do false advertising. Using copyright images isn't right, but when you're in a market this god damn competitive, I can't really blame them for taking the risky advantage either.

 

[Freesia.Cutepearl]

I must admit, I've been working on a cover, and used image search. It's for a stupid silly satire story. I heavily edited things in GIMP, and it's a composite of 5 images. I wouldn't want to just straight up reuse an image.

I'm curious now about thoughts, if you vastly transform the original images, how do you feel about it?

In my case, one of the images is from an amazing artist on deviant art, it was a huge landscape painting, and I took a small vertical slice.

Another was a painting of some plains, that I could only find small thumbnail like bits of, and I only used it for colors and smudge tooled it to death.

Then there was a screenshot of a starship from a video game, that itself was from a mod, and a fan made design.

Then a photo of a starry night sky.

And finally a character from waifu labs.

I composited the slice of the painting, the smudged up plains, and stars together, and transformed them with several filters. Then a bit with the ship too, and then finally added the character on top.

(I could post images but I didn't want to spam up the thread[still can if you really want though])

I think it is mandatory to credit the sources, if you use other's work.

I do feel like, if I've used it in a transformative way, and I'm not asking for money, that it's alright.
I think if someone is asking for money, then they should make commissioning a cover their top priority.

With the story example, I think it would be akin to writing a new story but taking elements from another, and molding or shifting them such that they'd be new entities on their own. Which if someone wants to credit something I've written as inspiration, for taking ideas and putting their own spin on them, that seem fair enough to me?

Idk. I like the cover I created so I plan to use it.

I had actually considered talking to @HansTrondheim about it since he so amazingly, kindly, made me one for Lilith's story, I considered asking if I could pay him some, or something, to help me make one. But ultimately I decided I didn't want to bother him.
(P.S. Thank you again so much for Lilith's cover I loooove it <3 )

 

[yansusustories]

I'm always confused when people frame this issue as "either we take an image from google or we need to pay big cash for a cover and we're too broke to do the latter". Like, you know there's sites where you can get royalty free pictures without infringing on anyone's copyright, yes? It might not necessarily be one that is drawn but instead a photo (although there are also some drawings on there) and maybe it won't fit the story 100% but it's absolutely a possibility and can still make for a decent cover.

Personally, I pay for the licenses of the pictures I use for my covers. As long as you don't go exclusive, it's not that expensive, actually. In fact, I can pay for that comfortably with the money I make by writing by now. It might be a bit more difficult when you start out but there is always the option to start with something free, earn a bit, and then upgrade your cover.
There's no need at all to infringe on anyone's copyright and I'm always a bit baffled when I see how blasé some authors are in this regard. I mean most of us also don't want to see our stories pirated, right? So why is it suddenly different when it comes to artists? I get if some people are still too young to understand but as soon as you see it pointed out for the first time (which happens fairly often), you should switch. No money, no skills, or whatever are just lame excuses. Everybody can slap a fucking title on a royalty free picture.

 

[Deleted member 29316]

I'm always confused when people frame this issue as "either we take an image from google or we need to pay big cash for a cover and we're too broke to do the latter". Like, you know there's sites where you can get royalty free pictures without infringing on anyone's copyright, yes? It might not necessarily be one that is drawn but instead a photo (although there are also some drawings on there) and maybe it won't fit the story 100% but it's absolutely a possibility and can still make for a decent cover.

Personally, I pay for the licenses of the pictures I use for my covers. As long as you don't go exclusive, it's not that expensive, actually. In fact, I can pay for that comfortably with the money I make by writing by now. It might be a bit more difficult when you start out but there is always the option to start with something free, earn a bit, and then upgrade your cover.
There's no need at all to infringe on anyone's copyright and I'm always a bit baffled when I see how blasé some authors are in this regard. I mean most of us also don't want to see our stories pirated, right? So why is it suddenly different when it comes to artists? I get if some people are still too young to understand but as soon as you see it pointed out for the first time (which happens fairly often), you should switch. No money, no skills, or whatever are just lame excuses. Everybody can slap a fucking title on a royalty free picture.

Well, first let me be clear: I'm not defending the image-grabbers. I'm an artist myself, and there are times when my art was grabbed and someone falsely claimed credit.

Now, as for the reason why some authors do that, there were those who doesn't know a thing about copyrights, or they are just vaguely aware about it (like, changing colors for a bit would absolve them from the responsibility). This applies mostly to new/teenage authors who are trying their 'wings' on the literature world.

On the other hand, there are those who think they could get away with it.

Also, there are those people who doesn't know a thing about searching by 'copyright'. They'd just grab the first image they see on Google and just go with it.

It sure is annoying, but most of these people would remove the image when you notify them about it. Others...well, they're jackasses.

 

[yansusustories]

Well, first let me be clear: I'm not defending the image-grabbers. I'm an artist myself, and there are times when my art was grabbed and someone falsely claimed credit.

Now, as for the reason why some authors do that, there were those who doesn't know a thing about copyrights, or they are just vaguely aware about it (like, changing colors for a bit would absolve them from the responsibility). This applies mostly to new/teenage authors who are trying their 'wings' on the literature world.

On the other hand, there are those who think they could get away with it.

Also, there are those people who doesn't know a thing about searching by 'copyright'. They'd just grab the first image they see on Google and just go with it.

It sure is annoying, but most of this people would remove the image when you notify them about it. Others...well, they're jackasses.

I know, I've read the other responses on the thread. The problem is: Not knowing something doesn't absolve you of a crime. And this issue regularly came up in almost every writing community I was ever part of, so I am having trouble believing that people are really that ignorant to do this more than once and not change their covers immediately after finding out. The sheer number of covers like that makes me feel like this is more a problem with the authors' attitude (because are there really that many authors that are that young to have never even heard of copyright?) and the responses on this thread so far only reinforce that. Then again, I've seen the school system in my country fail spectacularly in teaching anything related to the safe handling of media so maybe I shouldn't be as sceptical.

 

[LostLibrarian]

Idk. I like the cover I created so I plan to use it.

Then use it. Nobody will throw 1 stars at you for it and most people will probably not even realize it.

But going by your text you try to bring in "Fair Use" as argumentation, which already answers the central point.
Fair Use isn't a right. Fair Use is a defense in court. It's where you say "Yeah, I violated copyright and did something illegal, but here is the reason why this might have merit for the public."

The moment you have to defend yourself with fair use, you already know, that what you did is - going by the current law - illegal.

I do feel like, if I've used it in a transformative way, and I'm not asking for money, that it's alright.

But that isn't the meaning of transformative. You took a picture that is meant to be seen as artwork and use it as part of another picutre, that is still meant to be seen as artwork. That is - if anything - a really, really weak transformative based on the high amount of input. But generally, transformative means to change the underlying type of the thing.

Going from a "movie for entertainment" to "critical commentary about movie creation" or changing "an artwork meant to be looked at" to "a discussion about certain techniques", etc. There is some more, but transformative doesn't mean "I threw a filter on it and only used parts". If that were so, anything could just upload a movie with a filter on it to youtube...

"For free" alone is also not really an argument for fair use. It can just help when other factors are also met...


That said, I'm not an expert on copyright (in important cases I ask an actual lawyer for that), but if anything your example is a really
case example of Fair Use to me. I personally would say, if anything you would lose in court, not that that would ever happen...

With the story example, I think it would be akin to writing a new story but taking elements from another, and molding or shifting them such that they'd be new entities on their own. Which if someone wants to credit something I've written as inspiration, for taking ideas and putting their own spin on them, that seem fair enough to me?

But that isn't what you do. You don't take the idea of something, you take the work itself, change it a bit up, and use it afterwards. "Using elements from other stories" would be "I saw a cool cover with a cute waifulab girl on it, so I made my own". Or "that certain pose the character did was cool, so I drew my own version of it". That is what "reusing story elements" comes down to. Using the idea behind the copyrighted material.

Taking parts of an image and using the work done would translate to "reusing chapter 8-14" of a stranger's story word for word, while changing some names and sentences (throwing a filter on it). And we have a word for that behaviour: plagiarism. And putting some own work on top of plagiarism still doesn't make the thing itself alright or fair...



That said... if you want to use that cover, then use it.
I doubt many would care and even less would take action...

 

[Deleted member 29316]

I know, I've read the other responses on the thread. The problem is: Not knowing something doesn't absolve you of a crime. And this issue regularly came up in almost every writing community I was ever part of, so I am having trouble believing that people are really that ignorant to do this more than once and not change their covers immediately after finding out. The sheer number of covers like that makes me feel like this is more a problem with the authors' attitude (because are there really that many authors that are that young to have never even heard of copyright?) and the responses on this thread so far only reinforce that. Then again, I've seen the school system in my country fail spectacularly in teaching anything related to the safe handling of media so maybe I shouldn't be as sceptical.

Indeed. Ignorance of law doesn't absolve the one who committed the violation. It's true that the problem is in their attitude, and the good solution is to call them out for it (or report them).

 

[Freesia.Cutepearl]

But going by your text you try to bring in "Fair Use" as argumentation, which already answers the central point.

I see

You took a picture that is meant to be seen as artwork and use it as part of another picutre, that is still meant to be seen as artwork. That is - if anything - a really, really weak transformative based on the high amount of input.

I guess I was thinking along the lines of, the way it is not a replacement for the original. But, I see your points.


So.. here, I'll just include what I did to give a better idea.

Spoiler: Background Composite vs Sources

Composite:

Sources:

https://wall.alphacoders.com/big.php?i=869188

The Plains of the Jogos Nhai

The Plains of the Jogos Nhai is a vast region in northern Essos beyond the Bone Mountains. It is, as the name suggests, inhabited by the Jogos Nhai, a nomadic culture of mounted warriors that have raided the lands of the Golden Empire of Yi Ti for centuries. The plains are situated in Essos...

the-mockingbirds-song.fandom.com

Enchanting starry night sky views from Bitlis

Long exposure images show stars in the night sky near the Nemrut Crater Lake in Turkey's Bitlis province. (AA Photo)

www.hurriyetdailynews.com

Maybe it's a stupid argument, but it makes me feel differently when I've meshed things together and made something verses just straight up copying something. I really don't know the right answer. I just know one feels ok to me while the other doesn't?

Eitherway, thank you for the comments.

 

[yansusustories]

Maybe it's a stupid argument, but it makes me feel differently when I've meshed things together and made something verses just straight up copying something. I really don't know the right answer. I just know one feels ok to me while the other doesn't?

What I don't understand: If you go to the trouble of doing all that, why not just search for pictures on sites for royalty free images? Pictures very similar to the ones you used could be found on those sites as well and those are pictures you can use even for commercial purposes (despite not needing to pay) contrary to the ones that usually come from google.
It wouldn't have taken you any more time (since you need to search for pictures anyway, you'd just use a different website to do so) and the quality actually isn't that far off. Especially since what you are using here (aka, the night sky, a landscape, some kinda building, and a few mountains) is very easily available there. (Stand-ins for character might be more difficult, I admit to that.) So I'm pretty sure that you could have achieved about the same result without infringing on anyone's copyright.

 

[Freesia.Cutepearl]

I'll be honest, I'm not really that familiar with what resources there are, and it's just a stupid story I'm writing for fun, and I am not asking for money on patreon or anything like that(I don't want any, I don't feel worth it either), so I just kind of.. wanted something? I had thoughts of tracing outlines of things but after all the editing and smudging it seemed similar enough to just outlining it and smudging in my own colors.

 

[tiaf]

I see


I guess I was thinking along the lines of, the way it is not a replacement for the original. But, I see your points.


So.. here, I'll just include what I did to give a better idea.

Spoiler: Background Composite vs Sources

Composite:

Sources:

https://wall.alphacoders.com/big.php?i=869188

The Plains of the Jogos Nhai

The Plains of the Jogos Nhai is a vast region in northern Essos beyond the Bone Mountains. It is, as the name suggests, inhabited by the Jogos Nhai, a nomadic culture of mounted warriors that have raided the lands of the Golden Empire of Yi Ti for centuries. The plains are situated in Essos...

the-mockingbirds-song.fandom.com

Enchanting starry night sky views from Bitlis

Long exposure images show stars in the night sky near the Nemrut Crater Lake in Turkey's Bitlis province. (AA Photo)

www.hurriyetdailynews.com

Maybe it's a stupid argument, but it makes me feel differently when I've meshed things together and made something verses just straight up copying something. I really don't know the right answer. I just know one feels ok to me while the other doesn't?

Eitherway, thank you for the comments.

If you need landscapes then search on Unsplash!
FREE TO USE EVEN COMMERCIAL! They have stunning images. I’ve seen enough pictures there like the ones you used.

 

[yansusustories]

If you need landscapes then search on Unsplash!
FREE TO USE EVEN COMMERCIAL! They have stunning images. I’ve seen enough pictures there like the ones you used.

Yeah, Unsplash isn't bad. Pixabay is also coming to mind as far as resources go.

Speaking of which ... it might be nice making a list with resources for authors that don't want to infringe on copyright when they make their covers?

 

[tridetect]

I think its wrong and I wish everyone stopped encouraging each other to take artists works for their covers. I'd take no cover over a stolen one any day.

 

[tiaf]

Yeah, Unsplash isn't bad. Pixabay is also coming to mind as far as resources go.

Speaking of which ... it might be nice making a list with resources for authors that don't want to infringe on copyright when they make their covers?

I only know of those two, but they don't have anime pictures and we all now that people here want their clickbait anime waifus >.>
Then again, they could use waifulabs if they DON'T intend to open patreon or ko-fi.