Yes, science is human nature. As long as disasters don’t bug human society, it should happen. But, monster attacks, plagues, famine, bad weather, etc. will probably be worse so it would take time.
I believe the most difficult challenge would be creating a democracy where all people have a say. The second would be getting people to standardize and share their info. The third is the teaching and learning of more ‘mundane’ science, like Physics or Chemistry.
Actually, as long as there is a powerful research institution, who does 2 & 3, I believe that industrialization may happen soon after. As long as slavery and serfdom becomes abolished, and working people gain power, there will be nothing, besides a disaster, to stop it.
Also, assuming we have similar laws of nature, they should be able to do everything we can do + magic. That means that they will outclass us at almost every point, once they become as technologically advanced as us.
Military, Industry, Agriculture etc...
Well, fantasy is obviously meant to be fantastical, so I get why a mediaval setting is perfect for this. But what if a magical society attempted to use magic for things other than blasting the heads off of goblins and dragons?
This is assuming all the bells and whistles, like magic circles, mana stones, potions etc.
How similar would their magic tech be with our own? What aspects would it surpass or fall behind in?
Sure you can argue that with magic there's no need for progression, but if they have a reason to gather up and form an actual civilization beyond villages. Surely there must be a reason to improve the industry?
I actually had to look up 'high fantasy' to ponder the answer and i think it is possible in theory. In practice, i think the issue would become a lot more complex but also a lot more interesting. You would likely see growth in either magical or non-magical fields or both, depending on the circumstances. Of course, with that brings the risk of delving into schizotech and complicating things even further.
Actually, i think one of the best examples of the culture clash of a high fantasy society with the growth of magical (and non-magical) technology is the Ankh-Morpokh City Watch sub-series from Terry Pratchett's Discword novels, or just the Discworld-verse in general (as well as other odd bits and pieces of side amusements like the intrepid tale of the rise, fall and rise again of the semaphore/telegraph/internet telecommunications net work that is the clacks towers.)
Then there is the Unseen University (also of Discworld) who are, at the same time and space, both traditional D&D style 'whizz-bang' wizards as well as the closest fantasy analogue to scientists. the UU is also home to the disc's first computer/semi-sentient thinking engine.
TL;DR:
It could have. It would depend on a lot of conditions and circumstances to determine the specific level but it is possible to have an analogous level of technology comparable to modern science (in some parts at least.)
I guess that makes sense. I can agree with it. In fact, I used a very vague and very liberal approach to a magic system in my example, which it could maybe not be. But I did so, because that's the general gist of what is mostly available on this site.
Besides, I still think that science would have a greater motivation to advance in a world where magic existed, because of the supernatural point of my original comment (and no, magic would not be a part of nature then, since the definition of magic I stick to is "anything supernatural", which of course wouldn't stand strong in any world where it is regularly occurring, but since magic isn't real that totally works).
Also, the way I see it, in a magical world, there would be fewer restrictions on X (insert whatever it is that is not in abundance, be it time, resources or whatever else), which is the base of my opinion, which is why I think that a world with magic would be able to abuse a loophole in reality, unlike us, who live in a world without loopholes (except for those that may oray not exist which I treat as nonexistent due to this uncertainty).
Or they could just die or suffer forever if the fantasy in question is cosmic horror.
I've talked about this idea a bunch and even tried to write a few things with it, but here's my pov:
magic >>> science. Why? You ask. Because it's supernatural, I answer. It's literally in the word: super-natural, above-natural. Magic literally warps reality in some ways and there are certainly ways to abuse it to a ridiculous degree, while science only works within the very pressing constrains of the very natural reality where you can't find an exploit for infinite energy and practically free production.
Now, let's compare technological capabilities, military capabilities, availability and cultural development one by one. Obviously, the magical civilization compared to is theoretical but I will write why I think it doesn't seem ridiculous.
1) technological capabilities: magic is better. No competition. Most spells that are very cliche in fantasy are something we just can't do. Healing, flight, actual telepathy, information transition, literal teleportation, storage of quickly spoiled materials, production of raw materials and procurement of them are far too easy in a fantasy world.
2) military capabilities: obviously, fantasy wins. If your soldiers aren't afraid of bullets and if by the time you bring out bigger guns they will have mascacred you, you basically lose. Not to mention that most delicate tech would fail because of spells, since spells literally warp reality.
3) availability: a common trope is that only a small number of people can use magic. Expect great, ridiculous, nightmarish levels of wealth and opportunity inequality. 1 percent of 1 percent owning everything and everyone kind of inequality. The common man would wear rugs passed down by their grandparents, while the wealthy would live in a hyper-futuristic utopias. And that would be basically unfixable, since only the few are able to use magic in the first place.
4) Theoretical science and math (or things analogous to them) would be developed to an unthinkable degree. Our science is built on a mathematical foundation, what would a super-science that requires to go beyond the natural require? I fail to imagine. But I can guess that all and any natural science to know how to warp it.
TLDR: virgin modern civilization vs chad fantasy civilization
I've talked about this idea a bunch and even tried to write a few things with it, but here's my pov:
magic >>> science. Why? You ask. Because it's supernatural, I answer. It's literally in the word: super-natural, above-natural. Magic literally warps reality in some ways and there are certainly ways to abuse it to a ridiculous degree, while science only works within the very pressing constrains of the very natural reality where you can't find an exploit for infinite energy and practically free production.
Now, let's compare technological capabilities, military capabilities, availability and cultural development one by one. Obviously, the magical civilization compared to is theoretical but I will write why I think it doesn't seem ridiculous.
1) technological capabilities: magic is better. No competition. Most spells that are very cliche in fantasy are something we just can't do. Healing, flight, actual telepathy, information transition, literal teleportation, storage of quickly spoiled materials, production of raw materials and procurement of them are far too easy in a fantasy world.
2) military capabilities: obviously, fantasy wins. If your soldiers aren't afraid of bullets and if by the time you bring out bigger guns they will have mascacred you, you basically lose. Not to mention that most delicate tech would fail because of spells, since spells literally warp reality.
3) availability: a common trope is that only a small number of people can use magic. Expect great, ridiculous, nightmarish levels of wealth and opportunity inequality. 1 percent of 1 percent owning everything and everyone kind of inequality. The common man would wear rugs passed down by their grandparents, while the wealthy would live in a hyper-futuristic utopias. And that would be basically unfixable, since only the few are able to use magic in the first place.
4) Theoretical science and math (or things analogous to them) would be developed to an unthinkable degree. Our science is built on a mathematical foundation, what would a super-science that requires to go beyond the natural require? I fail to imagine. But I can guess that all and any natural science to know how to warp it.
TLDR: virgin modern civilization vs chad fantasy civilization
I think technology bend reality in a sense, the concept is the seme in the end, use whatever power source to do things, be it mana to teleport or heal or electricity to power machines to do the same the only factor that actually matter in a direct confrontation is how developed you are as a society, sure you can have a teleportation spell or an instant heal, but there is notting saying that you cant do that with technology as well, we cant now, maybe in the fare future the average human can teleport at will and its genetically enchanted so it instant heal everything non fatal and have unlimited lifespan because we figured out how trough science.
In the end comparing an hard magic system with science its a bit pointless since its basically the same thing, if you need spells to do magic someone has to research and test them all the same, if you consider a litrpg in most cases its system grant things you use them, who is better at using them winn, still hard magic but less knowledge base.
magic is basically a cheat that allow to skip steps of the process and enable people to do stuff in some way we cannot for now and the foreseeable future. Even if we say cultivators or mages can become incredibly strong with mana or qi and whatever else, someone had to come up with a reliable and repeatable method to do it, so its science just doing things that arent possible in reality.
applying it to tecnologi usually just mean you have a cheat method to do so since you can use mana or qi to power it yourself or they have cheats batteries in the form of manastone or spiritstones that conserve energy perfectly, form naturally, and in some cases recharge themselves, you basically skipp all the hard parts about producing, moving and conserving energy.
if you talk about a soft magic system that's to unreliable to do anything reliable or repeatable with since its actuall magic and you cant understand it or use it reliably even if someone can use that power sometimes.
there is notting saying that you cant do that with technology as well, we cant now, maybe in the fare future the average human can teleport at will and its genetically enchanted so it instant heal everything non fatal and have unlimited lifespan because we figured out how trough science.
The "scientific" civilization I used in example was our world. Sure, who knows where science will take us, but as it didn't, anything beyond today is fiction. As in, not science. As in, saying that in the future humans will cure death because how can you prove they won't is not a valid point.
In the end comparing an hard magic system with science its a bit pointless since its basically the same thing, if you need spells to do magic someone has to research and test them all the same,
But they are not the same. That's literally the whole point. A magical world has everything our world can offer (gosh, I feel so dirty and consumerist after typing this. I need a shower to cleanse my soul now) and anything a magical system can add on top of that. It's like saying: "a multinational supermarket chain is basically the same as a convinience store your aunt is running, right? They do basically the same things" - they don't.
I guess that makes sense. I can agree with it. In fact, I used a very vague and very liberal approach to a magic system in my example, which it could maybe not be. But I did so, because that's the general gist of what is mostly available on this site.
Besides, I still think that science would have a greater motivation to advance in a world where magic existed, because of the supernatural point of my original comment (and no, magic would not be a part of nature then, since the definition of magic I stick to is "anything supernatural", which of course wouldn't stand strong in any world where it is regularly occurring, but since magic isn't real that totally works).
Also, the way I see it, in a magical world, there would be fewer restrictions on X (insert whatever it is that is not in abundance, be it time, resources or whatever else), which is the base of my opinion, which is why I think that a world with magic would be able to abuse a loophole in reality, unlike us, who live in a world without loopholes (except for those that may oray not exist which I treat as nonexistent due to this uncertainty).
Or they could just die or suffer forever if the fantasy in question is cosmic horror.
You agreed with the thing I copypasted from my PREVIOUS answer to you.
Magic will probably have the upper hand in the speed of development compared to science, which is true. Magic is, arguably, easier to use, which is true as well. However, what is stronger is decided not only by the speed of development. It's also decided with an upper power limit. Besides, magic will suffer from the same problem science suffer from. Misconceptions and lack of genius people who actually make breakthroughs.
We had alchemy before, and it was a huge part of science. But with further increase in knowledge, we understood that the 'real' science is chemistry. So, who said that magic won't have the same problems? Like wizards try to explore the magical properties of certain materials and do it wrongly. Or wizards making a whole magic discipline that is wrong and flawed. Or, for example, we have a wizard who invented a spell that produces light. Before the existence of this wizard, everyone used torches or candles. What would happen if the said wizard never existed? How long should people wait for another wizard who comes up with such a spell? This question is similar to how long would we wait for Archimedes' law if Archimedes never existed? People tend to forget about these things when they talk about magic.
Because saying that a nonexistent person of a nonexistent world will matter the most to develop a nonexistent discipline about a (probably) nonexistent aspects of reality is... a bit off the point. It's like saying "but economics and social behaviour studies are all false because they are about how people act and interact, but in a hypothetical scenario people could interact differently and I think people forget that". They don't. They just create a model and those have a tendency to do away with things that are considered to be of a minimal to no effect, just like I did when I created a model of the development of an imaginary civilization that had magic in my comment.
As for magic having misconceptions and a lack of genius people to make breakthroughs? I can't say much about it, but do note that a common trope is that powerful mages are very long-lived and don't tend to suffer from the age problems real people suffer with (i.e dementia and just general decline in productivity of the mind and the body) and, on the contrary, they only get stronger with age. If the strongest minds on the planet had the incentives and the ability to further science for ages, how far could they go? Hell if I know, but that does seem quite far
Because saying that a nonexistent person of a nonexistent world will matter the most to develop a nonexistent discipline about a (probably) nonexistent aspects of reality is... a bit off the point. It's like saying "but economics and social behaviour studies are all false because they are about how people act and interact, but in a hypothetical scenario people could interact differently and I think people forget that". They don't. They just create a model and those have a tendency to do away with things that are considered to be of a minimal to no effect, just like I did when I created a model of the development of an imaginary civilization that had magic in my comment.
As for magic having misconceptions and a lack of genius people to make breakthroughs? I can't say much about it, but do note that a common trope is that powerful mages are very long-lived and don't tend to suffer from the age problems real people suffer with (i.e dementia and just general decline in productivity of the mind and the body) and, on the contrary, they only get stronger with age. If the strongest minds on the planet had the incentives and the ability to further science for ages, how far could they go? Hell if I know, but that does seem quite far
Let's pick the Harry Potter universe. Are every old mage there invent a lot of truly useful spells, artifacts, etc? People didn't know what to do with dragon blood before Dumbledore. Golden snitch wasn't always a metal ball. And so on. So, yeah, misconceptions and lack of genius people aren't exclusive to science and the real world. You can't come up with an invention simply because you grew old. This isn't how it works. People don't continuously grow smarter the older they get. Mediocre people will be mediocre elders(in terms of ability). As for that common trope, you know that I can simply google for a common trope that elevates science above magic? In sci-fi fiction, we have real-life problems, with a lack of genius people. Yet in fantasy novels, we won't have such problems. Why? Because we have a common trope.
That's called affecting environment and it's definitely not the same
The "scientific" civilization I used in example was our world. Sure, who knows where science will take us, but as it didn't, anything beyond today is fiction. As in, not science. As in, saying that in the future humans will cure death because how can you prove they won't is not a valid point.
But they are not the same. That's literally the whole point. A magical world has everything our world can offer (gosh, I feel so dirty and consumerist after typing this. I need a shower to cleanse my soul now) and anything a magical system can add on top of that. It's like saying: "a multinational supermarket chain is basically the same as a convinience store your aunt is running, right? They do basically the same things" - they don't
A fireball burning things down or a magical structure affect the environment all the same as a skyscraper or a bomb, the method change and the result depend on the strength of the magic and the technology involved, if the upper limit for technology is our world's then a standard fantasy fireball does little compared to a nuke but if you compare it to the super op cultivator/mage that can conjure and trow a star the nuke its inconsequential, comparing a druid magic grown tree hut with a skyscraper is more or less the same, the druid can modify the environment and grow/transform a tree in to a hut but the skyscraper modify the environment more since it require a lot of resources and space, if you compare the skyscape with a realm wide magical construction made with untold magic then the skyscape is inconsequential, the magical construction still impact the environment and to a way greater degree then the skyscraper. they bot bend reality to the whims of the person responsible for the actions, the method is what change.
Same point with the supermarket example, the multinational chain has way more means to fulfill its purpose but there is notting saying that my aut grocery store cant become a multinational supermarket given time and effort, the purpose of the business is the same, one just have way more means to do so, if the other party can increase its means the gap closes and both started form 0, the multinational didn't just appear out of tin air.
you can say magic is better since its a cheat compared to technology and you can probabilly get things done faster with less effort but that depend purely on the magical system in question. if you give the magic system unlimited resources and shortcuts everywhere than its way better.
A fireball burning things down or a magical structure affect the environment all the same as a skyscraper or a bomb, the method change and the result depend on the strength of the magic and the technology involved,
A fireball "appeared out of thin air" and I consider that more important than the impact it had after whoever or whatever used it for whatever purpose if there was one. The very idea of a fireball just coming into existence is more important, since that is what I mean when I say that magic warps reality. A bomb can be assembled, and all elements that it's assembled from come and stay in our reality, with all the principles behind the way it works rooted in reality. A fireball appearing at a whim of a mage (for the sake of example), even if the mage in question had to sacrifice a cow or a bit of mana to make is by no means rooted in reality. It warps it, and then affects the environment.
there is notting saying that my aut grocery store cant become a multinational supermarket given time and effort, the purpose of the business is the same, one just have way more means to do so, if the other party can increase its means the gap closes and both started form 0, the multinational didn't just appear out of tin air
Putting the sheer improbability of a convenience store growing into an international supermarket chain aside, anybody can say "well, if x does this then by the sheer weight of x's balls will accomplish it".
Let's pick the Harry Potter universe. Are every old mage there invent a lot of truly useful spells, artifacts, etc? People didn't know what to do with dragon blood before Dumbledore. Golden snitch wasn't always a metal ball. And so on. So, yeah, misconceptions and lack of genius people aren't exclusive to science and the real world. You can't come up with an invention simply because you grew old. This isn't how it works. People don't continuously grow smarter the older they get. Mediocre people will be mediocre elders(in terms of ability). As for that common trope, you know that I can simply google for a common trope that elevates science above magic? In sci-fi fiction, we have real-life problems, with a lack of genius people. Yet in fantasy novels, we won't have such problems. Why? Because we have a common trope.
Fair. So... Dare I assume you are saying that because both sides are facing a common problem between each other, one of the sides will just be worse at it for some reason?
But they are not the same. That's literally the whole point. A magical world has everything our world can offer (gosh, I feel so dirty and consumerist after typing this. I need a shower to cleanse my soul now) and anything a magical system can add on top of that. It's like saying: "a multinational supermarket chain is basically the same as a convinience store your aunt is running, right? They do basically the same things" - they don't.
When magic operates in accordance with a hard magic system magic research is just as much a science as physics or chemistry though.
The mechanisms behind it may be different. but it's still possible to create testable, falsifiable hypotheses and derive laws and theories from them.
A quick example of what I'm saying is the Warhammer 40k universe. Where technology fucking shit on any magic, gods, etc. But it isn't explained at all thus it's shitty worldbuilding, and people don't even think that it's sci-fi or anything. It's space fantasy, because, without proper explanation, people won't believe that it's scientifically possible. While magic, people can and will believe eagerly.
Science by no means beats magic and warp-frickery in 40k. Necron technology is just about the most advanced stuff available and can be borderline reality-warping at times, but even they lack the tools to really do much more than creating localized null-zones.
No science-fiction author has an obligation to invent the actual mechanism behind their fictional technologies. Not throwing technobabble at the readers every time something new is introduced doesn't suddenly make it bad, let alone shitty worldbuilding.
Neither is there an obligation to science fiction to actually adhere to modern, let alone future science. There is a ton of stuff we know won't ever be possible in Star Treck, but that doesn't suddenly make it (space) fantasy.
That being said, 40k is in fact better classified as space fantasy and runs on rule of cool more than logic and consistency when it comes to how stuff works.
And you may not be a fan, but it does actually have really good worldbuilding, when you dig deep enough. Way better than the mess Marvel and DC produced in their respective multiverses.
Science by no means beats magic and warp-frickery in 40k. Necron technology is just about the most advanced stuff available and can be borderline reality-warping at times, but even they lack the tools to really do much more than creating localized null-zones.
No science-fiction author has an obligation to invent the actual mechanism behind their fictional technologies. Not throwing technobabble at the readers every time something new is introduced doesn't suddenly make it bad, let alone shitty worldbuilding.
Neither is there an obligation to science fiction to actually adhere to modern, let alone future science. There is a ton of stuff we know won't ever be possible in Star Treck, but that doesn't suddenly make it (space) fantasy.
That being said, 40k is in fact better classified as space fantasy and runs on rule of cool more than logic and consistency when it comes to how stuff works.
And you may not be a fan, but it does actually have really good worldbuilding, when you dig deep enough. Way better than the mess Marvel and DC produced in their respective multiverses.
The dark age of technology beats immaterium. Necrons beat immaterium by literally locking it with their pylons. ALSO, also, Necrons made STAR GODS, C`tans their pokemons
A fireball "appeared out of thin air" and I consider that more important than the impact it had after whoever or whatever used it for whatever purpose if there was one. The very idea of a fireball just coming into existence is more important, since that is what I mean when I say that magic warps reality. A bomb can be assembled, and all elements that it's assembled from come and stay in our reality, with all the principles behind the way it works rooted in reality. A fireball appearing at a whim of a mage (for the sake of example), even if the mage in question had to sacrifice a cow or a bit of mana to make is by no means rooted in reality. It warps it, and then affects the environment
ok, i can sacrifice some fuel, a bottle, a piece of fabric, get a lighter in a convenience store and the cash necessary for everything to do pretty much the same, I expended resources to get a desired effect, same thing.
A bottle, fuel, lighter don't exist in nature, humans literally changed the world to create those things, we followed the rules of reality to alter it and creat things or effects that don't exist by themselves in nature.
A mage spending mana or sacrificing a cow, follow the rules of said reality to alter to get a fireball is the same thing.
We can not spend mana to get a fireball so we call it magic.
If you can study, understand and reproduce something its science and hard magic system are just like that.
Putting the sheer improbability of a convenience store growing into an international supermarket chain aside, anybody can say "well, if x does this then by the sheer weight of x's balls will accomplish it".
When magic operates in accordance with a hard magic system magic research is just as much a science as physics or chemistry though.
The mechanisms behind it may be different. but it's still possible to create testable, falsifiable hypotheses and derive laws and theories from them.
rules of said reality to alter to get a fireball is the same thing.
We can not spend mana to get a fireball so we call it magic.
If you can study, understand and reproduce something its science and hard magic system are just like that
That's not exactly what I'm getting into. I'm getting into the idea that something can appear out of nothing*. Or that the solid framework of reality is a lot more plastic in a fantasy world. A fantasy civilization would have much fewer constraints from reality than a non-magic world. That is what I'm getting onto. And they would certainly have more opportunities from that, opportunities far beyond what we have.
Besides, in fantasy mana or whatever is usually easily replenished and that would mean a cheaper and more sustainable environment than what we have here. Which I guess technically does fall under the opportunities that they would have over a scientific civilization
Fair. So... Dare I assume you are saying that because both sides are facing a common problem between each other, one of the sides will just be worse at it for some reason?
I would say that magic is probably stronger than science. Why? It will probably develop faster. You probably can combine magic with science, but this, in turn, will slow down the progress. Because science itself is slower in development. And you take this huge thing and combine it with another huge thing which is magic, and you try to merge this. I don't know, will this be slower or faster? I think both statements are eligible, but I lean towards slowing down the development.
The upper limits of magic are probably becoming a god, an omnipotent one. The upper limit of science? It's hard for me to imagine this. I'm not a science nerd. Can we achieve godhood through science? Perhaps. So, the upper power limit is equal. So, magic is slightly stronger than science because it develops quicker. Yet all of these are literally assumptions, and you can argue with this and use tropes, or scientific laws, and so on to elevate magic or science.
The conclusion is depending on what arguments you use, either of the two can be more powerful or equal. And all of this boils down to your taste and which thing do you prefer.
That's not exactly what I'm getting into. I'm getting into the idea that something can appear out of nothing*. Or that the solid framework of reality is a lot more plastic in a fantasy world. A fantasy civilization would have much fewer constraints from reality than a non-magic world. That is what I'm getting onto. And they would certainly have more opportunities from that, opportunities far beyond what we have.
If reality has different rules that allow to do more things or to do things easily it just make a different set of rules, it certainly make life easier.
If you can get something out of nothing there is no way of beating that, it would be awesome for a wile for sure.
Fantasy beat reality because its a fantasy in the end, and fantasy is almost always better then reality.
doing magic would be awesome but if you were born in to it you would probabilly wish for something else. Its awesome because you cant do it.
in the end wich one is better depend on the specific system, I would never switch form Earth reality to a system like Practical guide to Evil but if we are talking about something like Taint or Desolate Era I would do it immediately
Generally, I'm with the "magic is whatever you want it to be" team, but the most definite answer you'll ever get with that is "it depends".
Limiting Magic to "utilizing a superpotent form of energy to influence reality" still does not help much, but it gives a more solid foundation to work with.
In my opinion the most important part would be how this energy (from here on collectively referred to as "Mana") is used.
If it is present in the surroundings and utilized by the likes of runes, day to day life might be as gadget-y as out own, safe for the fact that they could do a lot more depending on the system in question, or perhaps less.
Magic that can only be wielded by the mind however would almost certainly look different. The how once again depends, this time on the share of population that can use it and possible differences in talent, mana capacity, or whatever else would prevent a random person from ending the world over a burned breakfast egg.
A world in which almost everyone can use magic to a practicable degree, respective commodities might not exist, if it is easy enough to maintain and existed early on, even clothing and houses would be optional. Today, both have social purposes beyond their immediate function in survival, but a society that never required them in the first place might consist of nudist hobos who instead flaunt the one thing that does matter to them: magic.
They might not look much like humans we know either, since long legs for example, which are useful to run, turn into a waste of energy if you can levitate at many times the speed.
Or, as fleshly natural disasters do not exactly need to group up for survival, humans could have failed to evolve socially in the first place. Again, modern humans do need others, but that's most likely because those who stuck to groups were a lot more likely to propagate their genes.
The above assumes that magic as a "fix it all" existed before those things were evolved/developed. If they existed by that point already, they might still be there. People in industrialized countries also grow taller instead of losing the legs they, too, need less and less, simply because there's no pressure to adapt.
Once you have differences, inequality comes knocking at your door, which, depending on how ability is distributed, makes TrashyHuman's dystopia at least plausible, even if this is little more than a moderately educated guess from my side.
If the differences are hereditary, you're likely to have feudalism with levels of inbreeding that puts the Habsburg dynasty to shame.
Another big factor are the limits of magic. If for example you have a rpg-like system of spells, certain actions might be impossible to achieve magically, trapping a budding civilization in the medieval fireball hurling stage. Even less rigid systems usually follow human perception of feasibility.
If magic only allows you to heal something "alive", then dead means dead, while with modern or projected future science, you could bring anyone back to life as long as you can prevent general decomposition and deal with the cause of death.
Automation would probably be needed less, but could also be significantly harder to achieve, if say you needed intelligence on the level of a human to use it, but had no magic shortcuts to create that.
So in a world with such limits, you might see a mixture of both, which probably would end up more advanced than modern earth in a fraction of the time.
But there could also be a world where science as we know it is impossible and everything runs on magic on a core level, even if effects are arranged in a way that makes it similar to ours at a glance. "Wood burning" might be its mana being drained to maintain a fire spell. In this case, the limitations could be even harsher than those imposed on us, as our world is counter-intuitive, meaning it's possible to find workarounds for the impossible from gaining a new angle, while most magic systems I know of follow a "what you see is what you get" approach.
In addition, the fantasy worlds we are shown or even create ourselves usually have fundamental knowledge about magic more or less available. But unless it is intuitively usable by anyone with the ability to, you also need to answer the question how they even got there.
Underlying rules are a fairly reasonable option, but you need some form of experimentation to establish a knowledge base. And in a world where the difference between cleaning your laundry and creating a black hole is whether you roll an r, said civilization would probably annihilate itself on accident before even getting to the point of comparison to ours in terms of social structure.
It's not too different from evolution at its core, but with a lot less retries.
If the mana is destroyed upon use, or at least transformed, a magic civilization could form, drain all mana available and finally experience a massive fallout, perhaps regrowing from the ruins as a non-magic civilization.
If you disagree, do not hesitate to tell, I am not afraid to pull the power cord before losing an online argument.
Military, Industry, Agriculture etc...
Well, fantasy is obviously meant to be fantastical, so I get why a mediaval setting is perfect for this. But what if a magical society attempted to use magic for things other than blasting the heads off of goblins and dragons?
This is assuming all the bells and whistles, like magic circles, mana stones, potions etc.
How similar would their magic tech be with our own? What aspects would it surpass or fall behind in?
Sure you can argue that with magic there's no need for progression, but if they have a reason to gather up and form an actual civilization beyond villages. Surely there must be a reason to improve the industry?
Military, Industry, Agriculture etc...
Well, fantasy is obviously meant to be fantastical, so I get why a mediaval setting is perfect for this. But what if a magical society attempted to use magic for things other than blasting the heads off of goblins and dragons?
This is assuming all the bells and whistles, like magic circles, mana stones, potions etc.
How similar would their magic tech be with our own? What aspects would it surpass or fall behind in?
Sure you can argue that with magic there's no need for progression, but if they have a reason to gather up and form an actual civilization beyond villages. Surely there must be a reason to improve the industry?
While I suspect there would be some huge differences, the vast majority of our existing technologies were developed to solve specific problems, then used a bases to develop solutions to other problems.
I would expect magitech to follow a similar pattern. First up: water, food, and sewage handling.
Depending on the efficiency, I could see water either being created magically or pumped from another place.
Food is going to require magic for raising crops and driving off pests, unless making pesticide is easier, in which case that will be preferred.
Sewer systems are quite likely unless slimes are convenient.
They would probably make some jewelry with multiple gemstones and imbue each gemstone with certain qualities such as communication, data collection, image projection, GPS, and whatnot to create the equivalent of a smartphone.
