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TheTrinary

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I would be interested in a first chapter review. Be merciless if you need to!

https://www.scribblehub.com/series/253773/potions-sugar-ashes/
It started okay and pretty enjoyable. There were a few weird bits here and there, but it was fine.

Once you get 1/3 of the way through though, it really devolves. There are issues with subject verb agreement, capitalization, and a lot of formatting issues. On formatting, I notice that you have every sentence as its own paragraph pretty much. This can be fine in places, but it really disrupts the flow if every sentence is like that, and it's straight bad with dialogue. You completely lost me at once point when a character says something in one sentence and then you have a paragraph break where he says another sentence. That's how you format back and forth dialogue between multiple people.

I like your ideas generally. The fact that he wanted to eat the person he was robbing is interesting and unique, and the reaction from that boy is also novel. I do think some of that dialogue was a little hokey, but otherwise good in terms of ideas.
 

LinMeili

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Can you read mine, please?
 

EternalSunset0

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Is it cheating if I were to say that the first two chapters were originally one chapter and should be read as such? The entire volume doubled in length because I divided each chapter due to word density concerns (each chapter was 5-7k words and I was worried so I force-split everything in half). On a semi-related note, you think I should have not done this?

Basically, you can take a look at just the first chapter since this is a first chapter feedback thread, but it's pretty much incomplete and second chapter is the "true" end of chapter 1.

Here you go, regardless.

 

TheTrinary

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Can you read mine, please?
Yea that was solid and hit the right notes in terms of story telling. As far as these things go, I actually quite liked the introduction and the first few paragraphs. It was a clever way to introduce the concept without getting bogged down in the same old thing over and over.

I found the tone a little grating with all the meta stuff and how flippant it was, but it didn't go 100% in that direction where I disliked it.
Is it cheating if I were to say that the first two chapters were originally one chapter and should be read as such? The entire volume doubled in length because I divided each chapter due to word density concerns (each chapter was 5-7k words and I was worried so I force-split everything in half). On a semi-related note, you think I should have not done this?

Basically, you can take a look at just the first chapter since this is a first chapter feedback thread, but it's pretty much incomplete and second chapter is the "true" end of chapter 1.

Here you go, regardless.

From a structure standpoint, I really like what you did. Normally people jump right into it but you had two full chapters of character work and buildup, which is just perfect in my book.

The MC is where it started to lose me though. He's just kind of a bland asshole and there's not a lot there where I connect with him. He seems dismissive and I don't get what the appeal is supposed to be. Even if you're taking someone and going to change them and make them dynamic and grow, there should still be something to latch on to and appreciate, and I just wasn't getting that.

And then finally, you're prose had a lot of issues. There is a ton of tense issues, and I'd also add in some stilted phrasing on top of that.

If it was one issue or the other, I'd probably give it a thumbs up since I otherwise appreciate a lot of what you're doing, but both of those things together I can't. So it's a no from me.
 
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LinMeili

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Yea that was solid and hit the right notes in terms of story telling. As far as these things go, I actually quite liked the introduction and the first few paragraphs. It was a clever way to introduce the concept without getting bogged down in the same old thing over and over.

I found the tone a little grating with all the meta stuff and how flippant it was, but it didn't go 100% in that direction where I disliked it.
Thanks for the feedback.
 

Eroningen

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Track changes is a feature in writing documents (and what Scribophile uses) that allows a second party to edit the document. It gives a series of tools and symbols like strike through and side comments. It's also all in a different color so it's super easy to see.

So line editing. There are three different kinds of editing. Professional editors will do each type independently, although some works might need the bigger picture stuff. So theoretically, some authors getting published professionally (cough, Lindsey Ellis) will get 3 pass throughs on their work by their agency.

With all that said, line editing refers to the minute kind of editing. Line by line, word by word.
Ah, makes sense, was about what I thought it was then. I looked up some more technical details on editing as well, so I think I have a better understanding of line editing, copy editing, etc.
 

EternalSunset0

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From a structure standpoint, I really like what you did. Normally people jump right into it but you had two full chapters of character work and buildup, which is just perfect in my book.

The MC is where it started to lose me though. He's just kind of a bland asshole and there's not a lot there where I connect with him. He seems dismissive and I don't get what the appeal is supposed to be. Even if you're taking someone and going to change them and make them dynamic and grow, there should still be something to latch on to and appreciate, and I just wasn't getting that.

And then finally, you're prose had a lot of issues. There is a ton of tense issues, and I'd also add in some stilted phrasing on top of that.

If it was one issue or the other, I'd probably give it a thumbs up since I otherwise appreciate a lot of what you're doing, but both of those things together I can't. So it's a no from me.
Thank you so much for the detailed feedback. Yeah, it took me around 3 volumes to learn the thing about the tenses. I need to revisit those first 2 volumes. Maybe once I put the entire series out on paper since I have the plot set. Probably gonna get edited along with the prose since it's also not a strong suit.

For the prose, what stilted phrasing do you specifically mean, if I may ask? Do I overexplain stuff? Or overjustify stuff like character decision-making?

As for the MC, I designed him as a kinda blank state JRPG protagonist with a muted personality, taking care not to create a Gary Stu, so I guess that's part of why he seems so "unconnecting." Probably made him a bit too unlikeable(?) Another feedback from another person did say that he's bland, so it's also another thing for me to look at soon. I tried giving those monologues to show that he appreciates his family and friends despite being cold about it and being socially awkward to express them, but I guess I should go for something stronger and more sympathetic than those.

Everything's right on par with my expectations for the review though. Thanks for the very helpful feedback that helped me see my strengths and weaknesses more clearly.
 

BenJepheneT

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@TheTrinary I KNOW I'm cheating but do you take one-shot stories too? It technically breaks the first chapter rule since the first Chapter IS the last chapter. It won't be over 10k words. Is that fine?
 

TheTrinary

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@TheTrinary I KNOW I'm cheating but do you take one-shot stories too? It technically breaks the first chapter rule since the first Chapter IS the last chapter. It won't be over 10k words. Is that fine?
You have two oneshots I've never read. . . ya gonna make me ask?
 

BenJepheneT

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You have two oneshots I've never read. . . ya gonna make me ask?
Aight', I'll do this chronologically with the upload dates. This is the first one, dating two years back.

Be harsh on me.

 

TheTrinary

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If you would be so nice and give me a critique of my first chapter, that would be wonderful.
Trading Hells
Honestly, I gave up after two paragraphs. I counted 4 glaring errors and one small one that doesn't matter just within those five or six sentences. I've been doing this long enough where if I see a story start like that, I'm just not going to waste my time commenting on the story or characters since I'm going to give it a hard no on writing alone.

"The not comfortable part I was still debating with myself." Clever in the idea, but you don't use kennings when you should and the passive voice on top of that makes it horribly confusing.

"His overall had seen better days." Overalls are the cloths. Overall is the concept of everything.

"Every 2 or 3 months or so a visit" what

"that was the most important consideration." no idea what this is modifying or what it means.
Aight', I'll do this chronologically with the upload dates. This is the first one, dating two years back.

Be harsh on me.

oh you literally just updated your profile picture.
Aight', I'll do this chronologically with the upload dates. This is the first one, dating two years back.

Be harsh on me.

Okay. . .

There are a lot of ideas here that I like and some interesting interplay between them, but I think it's weak in some parts and I think it flat out doesn't work in others.

Starting with the least bothersome: formatting. You completely overuse italics. Everything is italics and that's bogged down because you include speech as italics. It hurts my eyes and make its visually unappealing. It also lessens the effectiveness of emphasis when everything is italics.

On a technical level, you're writing is fine, but the prose was weak in parts. You'd hem and haw with some narration and use excessive words and sentences. The one that stuck out to me is when you described something and then said "apparently." That can be used if there is some confusion from the POV, but there didn't seem to be. You had another moment when you really smudged your imagery towards the end. You are describing the woman going to the bathroom naked, but then you also describe the sky as naked. It's a good description on its own, but in context you're pulling the same imagery from an entirely different concept with no real juxtaposition or relatedness there; e.g. she was naked like the sky. For a third example, you failed in establishing early on. You start saying woman without ever saying who that is. It's all she she she, until there's a girl there and then its the girl and the woman.

And then the ideas also got smudgy for me as you throw out a lot of stuff there that detracts from the central narrative. And I'll say upfront, I might be confused and missed things. So the story is about this woman who is either a) lying about who she is or b) completely disassociating her identity. Both of those things are great and the fact that it could be read either way is great, but then she's married to an alien? And this just adds in a whole new layer of what. What does that have to do with the ideas of the story? Why did she have this dream conversation about not being able to tell a boy that she liked him. . . when she's married to him. The final elements are distracting, confusing, and I'm not sure they mesh with what's been discussed so far.

So that's my really shallow take on it. Like I said, there's a lot going on here and I could go on like this for quite a while.

I'd appreciate an explanation for the story: both what's happening literally and what the take away is supposed to be. Also, have you read the Stormlight Archive? There's some stuff reminiscent of a character from that, with most of the similarities being from the book that was published last November, which makes your 2 year old publishing date quite surprising.
 
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MadMcAl

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"The not comfortable part I was still debating with myself." Clever in the idea, but you don't use kennings when you should and the passive voice on top of that makes it horribly confusing.

I am unfortunately not a native English speaker and the word 'keenings' is not one I can place, so sorry, what did you mean?

"His overall had seen better days." Overalls are the cloths. Overall is the concept of everything.

Again, non-native and every resource I used (dict.leo, Merriam-Webster, Cambridge dictionary, and a few others) tells me that 'overall is singular, while 'overalls' is the plural of the clothing. Unfortunately, unless somebody tells me that it is not commonly used that way I have to trust these resources.


"Every 2 or 3 months or so a visit" what
That was a reference to the immediately preceding sentence, telling about his distant relationship with his shower.
"that was the most important consideration." no idea what this is modifying or what it means.
Again, referring to the immediately preceding sentence, where the MC weighs the fact that the man can bring her to the other side of the continent.
 

TheTrinary

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I am unfortunately not a native English speaker and the word 'keenings' is not one I can place, so sorry, what did you mean?



Again, non-native and every resource I used (dict.leo, Merriam-Webster, Cambridge dictionary, and a few others) tells me that 'overall is singular, while 'overalls' is the plural of the clothing. Unfortunately, unless somebody tells me that it is not commonly used that way I have to trust these resources.



That was a reference to the immediately preceding sentence, telling about his distant relationship with his shower.

Again, referring to the immediately preceding sentence, where the MC weighs the fact that the man can bring her to the other side of the continent.
A kenning is one of two words you can use for a compound word that uses a dash "-" to combine two words into one. It's not the most common word to describe it but it's the one I've always used.


Overalls are the cloths. I've never heard of someone wearing an overall (singular) regardless of technical grammatical correctness.


"Every 2 or 3 months or so a visit" what
That was a reference to the immediately preceding sentence, telling about his distant relationship with his shower


Sure. . . but it makes no sense.


"that was the most important consideration." no idea what this is modifying or what it means.
Again, referring to the immediately preceding sentence, where the MC weighs the fact that the man can bring her to the other side of the continent.


Okay I understand this one now. I would rephrase the previous sentence because that could be read a few ways, but this is all technically correct.
 
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New to Scribble hub, but still. Hit me!

Also, the first chapter is the 2nd one from bottom to top.

 

TheTrinary

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New to Scribble hub, but still. Hit me!

Also, the first chapter is the 2nd one from bottom to top.

So I made it a few paragraphs in before I had to put it down. Right away there are some problems with excessive comma usage for no real reason. And then sentences just kind of devolved into a mess that feels like it was put through google translate and then back again. Its pretty much every issue you could have. Punctuation, capitalization, tense, sentence construction.
 

EternalSunset0

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Thanks for all the help @TheTrinary. If it's fine, I would have my next two volumes checked to get a feedback on how my writing changes or develops over the course of my story's arcs. Second volume and third volume here.


 

BenJepheneT

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Okay. . .

There are a lot of ideas here that I like and some interesting interplay between them, but I think it's weak in some parts and I think it flat out doesn't work in others.
Yeah, before I start replying I should probably mention these are works from my amateur hour. I'm not saying I'm a pro now; I'm just saying everything you see ova' there is me not knowing shit and gunning it regardless. I still don't know shit now but I know significantly more shit than I did back then. I essentially YOLO'd this bitch like no tomorrow. If I ever attempt a rewrite on this, it'll be drastically different than what you see here.

Starting with the least bothersome: formatting. You completely overuse italics. Everything is italics and that's bogged down because you include speech as italics. It hurts my eyes and make its visually unappealing. It also lessens the effectiveness of emphasis when everything is italics.
The italics are supposed to be a sort of replacement for dialogue, because in reality, they're not really talking, but doing some pseudo-telekenisis to send their thoughts into the subject's head. Those italics are supposed to be rudimentary interpretation of what they could be saying if they spoke shit.

As you can see, it didn't work. It ended up being really fucking terrible. The reason I didn't use normal dialogue is because of variables surrounding the woman herself (more on THAT later).

In terms of emphasis, there are honestly none. Like I said, it's meant to be a substitution for the not-dialogue I wanted to show. I can definitely format it better, looking at it now but yeah, I can tell it's a chore to read, even from my perspective. It's a bitch for me; I wouldn't wanna imagine what it was like for you.

On a technical level, you're writing is fine, but the prose was weak in parts. You'd hem and haw with some narration and use excessive words and sentences. The one that stuck out to me is when you described something and then said "apparently." That can be used if there is some confusion from the POV, but there didn't seem to be. You had another moment when you really smudged your imagery towards the end. You are describing the woman going to the bathroom naked, but then you also describe the sky as naked. It's a good description on its own, but in context you're pulling the same imagery from an entirely different concept with no real juxtaposition or relatedness there; e.g. she was naked like the sky. For a third example, you failed in establishing early on. You start saying woman without ever saying who that is. It's all she she she, until there's a girl there and then its the girl and the woman.
I'll come back to the prose, but I want to inform something regarding the establishing of the "woman". What was happening during that scene is that there's actually two subjects during the majority of the story. One was the woman. And the other was the women.

Note the italics, they were supposed to be a distinction. What I was trying to do is seperate both the woman and the women/girl/lady/teen using italics, because they're ALL supposed to be nameless entities. I haven't quite grasped accurate prepositions by then so I did a makeshift workaround by seperating them two with different word formattings, the results of which were, well, in hindsight, very self-explanatory.

Now back to the prose. Yes, I am very ham-fisted now, but back then, the dial was turned up to 11 with a tape holding it there. I was the kind of guy to scoff at SAO enjoyers and call CoD players "intellectually deprived". You could imagine the kind of story a guy like that would write on paper. I'm not putting the full blame on the passing on time; it's a problem of mine to steer towards abstract expressionism and weird ass prose to get my point across. Up to today, I'm still not trusting of my audience to get the memo and end up overexplaning and convoluting everything.

So yes, the "she's as naked as the sky" line was supposed to be some double whammy that'll wind up to "oh, she's naked, and the sky is naked, so that means that the woman is naked and the sky has no stars, hence it's naked". Evidently, you could see how well that worked.

As for the "apparently" phenomenon, I'll explain further.

And then the ideas also got smudgy for me as you throw out a lot of stuff there that detracts from the central narrative. And I'll say upfront, I might be confused and missed things. So the story is about this woman who is either a) lying about who she is or b) completely disassociating her identity. Both of those things are great and the fact that it could be read either way is great, but then she's married to an alien? And this just adds in a whole new layer of what. What does that have to do with the ideas of the story? Why did she have this dream conversation about not being able to tell a boy that she liked him. . . when she's married to him. The final elements are distracting, confusing, and I'm not sure they mesh with what's been discussed so far.
Okay, I should probably mention this beforehand. If I were to say this BEFORE you read this, you wouldn't have as much interest towards your confusion as you have now.

This is actually a precursor to a story I have planning. I haven't written it yet, so this is essentially some alpha episode/pilot concept to one of the themes of that story. Namely, those of self discovery, confusion and confliction.

Said confusing elements like the monster marriage are PART of that unwritten story I'm still planning. And that I will explain further down below.

I'd appreciate an explanation for the story: both what's happening literally and what the take away is supposed to be.
Okay, here's a TL;DR of the story. I hope it clears things up.

A woman is dreaming. She dreams of an endless field with a swing set atop a hill. When she goes onto the swing she meets 4 versions of her past self. Namely, the girl, the teen, the woman and the lady.

Now, this woman here has a problem. She's got a person she loves and has already married. The problem is that she isn't what she seems to be. She's been hiding an aspect of herself from the one she's married. He has absolutely NO IDEA that she isn't human whatsoever. Now, her dilemma is the emotional conflict between keeping the lie and leaving the relationship intact but risk her integrity and sanity, or finally let go of the truth, and let the boat rock.

The girl, which is her youngest self, represents her innocent love. When asked the question, she answers as straightforward as possible. If you love the guy, why not stay with the guy? That's her solution.

However, the teen represents the cynicism of that same token. Who's to say he's going to stay? It needs no bigger explanation; don't risk that shit, and keep the lie up. The pain might be great, but there's no telling how bad it'll get in the future.

As the woman's past self gets older, she meets the woman. This woman is the peak of her cynicism. This cynicism actually ties into the bigger story, which, as stated, isn't written yet. But long story short, she has a bad history between her secret self and her husband's species. The woman suffered the BRUNT of that bad history, and she represents absolute self-protection. Don't even THINK of risking that shit. She's the type of woman to swallow the cyanide pill if the risk ever even arises. She is what the woman grew out of, and she's NOT what she wants to return to. Hence, she Force Mind Wipes™ her away, but not forever, as it is still a part of what the woman once was.

The lady is supposed to be a culmination of all the woman's experience. It is at this point where most readers would be at the height of their confusion. They've done their toll through the word count and all they really understand is that the woman has a problem and the girl, the teen and the woman have given nothing but questions, more questions, and a vague idea of what the woman COULD'VE been throughout her life. The lady shows that at this point, the woman should've made a decision, and dips out without giving an answer. I admit, I've overcooked the mystery at this point, but the lady is supposed to show how far the woman have stalled this shit. She is supposed to have solved this dilemma she's in but yet, she hasn't. It's like a final drop in the "WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON" bucket before it deluges out when the alien steps in.

Spoiler alert: the alien is the woman's true self.

The alien isn't some seperate entity operating in a different mind. It is just that; the woman's true, alien self. Square head, lean tall body and all. The woman herself is the façade she puts out. This is where the mystery gets revealed. The dilemma, as stated, is that the woman has someone she loves. But that someone she loves loved her back at her different self. It's simply a lie she put on and now her husband's fallen for that. She is unsure whether revealing the truth would perma severe the tie she holds so dear, and thus she Lie, Again.

*Wink wink

The description of the man in question; yes, no head and skinny body, is supposed to be a non variable. His species, race, trait and all are supposed to be non variables. All that matters is that he thinks the woman's human. As for WHY the husband's that way, it's again part of the story I've planned but have yet put on paper. I know it's an overplayed cop out at this point and I admit, it kinda is. I have next to no excuse for this shit. I say "next to no" because it was written two years ago, and if you were to offer me one hundred dollars to punch myself from two years ago, I would do it for free.

Back on topic the woman wakes up in the real world, next to the man, the myth, the legend: the husband. She goes to the bathroom and this is where all the questions beforehand gets revealed. The woman isn't a woman; but an alien. She only does this when she's alone, far from her husband's sight. If that wasn't enough of a clue, she LeBron James three pointer slams the box back on her head the moment she hears him stepping into the bathroom. And if THAT wasn't enough, the husband, a.k.a Creepus, even states that he'll comfort his wife's problem no matter how HUMAN they are, which we know the woman definitely isn't.

The main takeaway from all of this is as literal as it gets. What if mutual love isn't really mutual, but one built on a one sided lie? The story is only supposed to pose the question, not the answer. The conclusion is purposefully left open ended so that readers can interpret however they like. You're not supposed to dictate how the story would end, but what the woman should do. Should she hold onto the truth and swallow the gradually growing pill choking her up and risk losing her crumbling integrity or reveal the truth and risk losing the love of her life?

That is, essentially, the whole message. Yes, I took a very, VERY convoluted road to get there, but I was a very pretentious writer. I still am, just not as obnoxious as before. What if two people love each other but one of them is lying? Thinking about it now I didn't need cosmic fever hotline calling dreams to relay it.
 

TheTrinary

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@BenJepheneT



"The italics are supposed to be a sort of replacement for dialogue, because in reality, they're not really talking, but doing some pseudo-telekenisis to send their thoughts into the subject's head. Those italics are supposed to be rudimentary interpretation of what they could be saying if they spoke shit."

I don't prefer it, but italics are fine for dialogue. My issue came in that there were italics for everythingggggg. Including dialogue.

"Note the italics, they were supposed to be a distinction. What I was trying to do is seperate both the woman and the women/girl/lady/teen using italics, because they're ALL supposed to be nameless entities. I haven't quite grasped accurate prepositions by then so I did a makeshift workaround by seperating them two with different word formattings, the results of which were, well, in hindsight, very self-explanatory."

Ohhhhhh. I got that with girl/lady/teen/ I completely missed women was its own unique thing.

"A woman is dreaming. She dreams of an endless field with a swing set atop a hill. When she goes onto the swing she meets 4 versions of her past self. Namely, the girl, the teen, the woman and the lady."

oh so women as in the Mc and these figments? I'm confused again.

"As the woman's past self gets older, she meets the woman. This woman is the peak of her cynicism. This cynicism actually ties into the bigger story, which, as stated, isn't written yet. But long story short, she has a bad history between her secret self and her husband's species. The woman suffered the BRUNT of that bad history, and she represents absolute self-protection. Don't even THINK of risking that shit. She's the type of woman to swallow the cyanide pill if the risk ever even arises. She is what the woman grew out of, and she's NOT what she wants to return to. Hence, she Force Mind Wipes™ her away, but not forever, as it is still a part of what the woman once was."

Okay this is where I began to lose the track. I missed some of this subtext.

And then rest is simple enough.

So two things.

1. I think the real core issue is that this is part of a bigger work and can't really be understood alone. Also, that larger scope dilutes the idea.

2. You're being a bit harsh on yourself. You asked me to go hard so I did and didn't focus on the positives too much, but it still captured the imagination and there's a lot here. Parts may not be up to your standards now a days, but there's nothing awful, just weak parts here and there. The core story telling works for me and I like all the central ideas. Like, I found the unclearness between literal and metaphor MORE interesting.
 

BenJepheneT

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Ohhhhhh. I got that with girl/lady/teen/ I completely missed women was its own unique thing.
It's a problem of terms. If there was a word I could use between teen and lady, I'd gladly abuse it during the section.

Okay this is where I began to lose the track. I missed some of this subtext.
I was trying to convey that subtext through clues within the aforementioned ITALICS IN EVERYTHINGGGFGGGGG dialogue. Specifically, the have you forgotten what the fuck they did to us dialogue with the woman (henceforth addressed as italic ver. woman) . It was supposed to be a persisting question that would eventually click when the mystery of the woman's dilemma is revealed. She loved some guy but is keeping her identity from him, and when consulting the italic ver. woman, she mentions terrible history, and that's where it's supposed to click.

Supposed, I say.

I think the real core issue is that this is part of a bigger work and can't really be understood alone. Also, that larger scope dilutes the idea.
Well, there was an attempt. See, my original plan was to make this short story FIRST as an appetizer that would EVENTUALLY lead towards the bigger work. As a precursor of what's to come, it could serve as to the bigger mystery, and give an "oh fuck I gotta know more" moment, and segue into said bigger work where all the questions will slowly get answered as you read through it.

Though in hindsight, I probably should've done this, say, a month or two before making the bigger work, if I'd ever be alive long enough to make it.

-
Okay, now that's out of the way, here's the more recent one. It's built from the ground up AS a one-shot, though it shares the same universe as Caninstinct.


Though you should probably finish this guy's first
Thanks for all the help @TheTrinary. If it's fine, I would have my next two volumes checked to get a feedback on how my writing changes or develops over the course of my story's arcs. Second volume and third volume here.


 
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