Moderation and Slurs

[Moonpearl]

Nothing bizarre about it. Because it is normal and always was. Nothing happens when you're offended. You do not "own" words and people's ability to utilize them however the fuck they see fit. "Oh no, some dude in the obscure thread on the internet said something offensive! And I was offended! And when I woke up next morning — I had leprosy!". Be offended, nothing will happen.

Words have power, bro. Revolutions, genocides and wars have all been set off by a careless or sinisterly careful use of words - that's why so many governments seek to censor literature when they want to keep the population under their thumb.

Creating slurs for groups and flinging them around as insults, implying that being part of that group is an insult, is how people grow stigma against that group. And that always leads to bad things.

It's similar the other way around. I'm part of multiple communities that when someone calls something a 'Trap' we know what that is. Astolfo, Chevalier d'Eon, Felix, and so on. But apparently the word also has negative connotations against... Crossdressing Transgenders or trans people who dress up as their trans gender or something? I kind of ignored the entire conversation cause weeb has basically usurped any negative connotations to the word for me and I found it silly.

People seem to forget that internet anonymity means you can be as much of a cunt to other people as you'd like. It's not uncommon in some groups to see people rapidly insulting the others in the worst ways, then 5 minutes later be talking about something completely different.

Words have as much power over you as you give to them- and just as Anonymity giveth, the Block function taketh away.

It implies that someone is deceiving you by dressing the way they please, and it was extended as an insult to transgender women by the usual shitlords.

Words affect the way that others think about you. They do matter.

 

[CupcakeNinja]

Hm... I have difficulty with that one, though. As a queer woman, there are ways I speak that make straight people panic until they know I'm queer.

I get around it by making it explicitly clear that I'm part of the group who can use that all over my profile, but I still up with fools assuming I'm a man or a straight person.

It would be difficult for me to filter my speech to make straight people happy, though. Stifling, even.

That's another good point. By filtering what we say for the sake of other people, we may feel stifled ourselves. Maybe even wronged
Like "why should WE have to censor ourselves for THEIR sake?"
Both sides have fair points. I just lean to free speech because I know there are other sites people can go to if they dobt like the atmosphere of one. On the other hand they shouldnt feel the need to leave in the first place.
So yup. Delicate is a good word for it.

Fist: it's an appropriate term for woke-whoring, so I totally can and will use it.
Second: bringing up a non-existent issue, referring to non-existent "proof" and subsequently refusing to provide said proof is a drama-seeking behaviour if I ever saw one.




I'm stealing this.



Nothing bizarre about it. Because it is normal and always was. Nothing happens when you're offended. You do not "own" words and people's ability to utilize them however the fuck they see fit. "Oh no, some dude in the obscure thread on the internet said something offensive! And I was offended! And when I woke up next morning — I had leprosy!". Be offended, nothing will happen.

That's Cunt-speak for "i dont like what this guy said so imma be an asshole and make claims I have no evidence for"

Sure. I said maybe you are right. But he had a perfectly legitimate reason for not wanting to provide evidence: not wanting to make this a drama thread.

You, though, didnt have a reason to doubt that but you did anyway. That's cunt behaviour. Cuz now you opened the thread to other people doing the same. For no reason. As OP doesnt give any reason for doubt. Ya just didnt like it

Again, why so quick to jump on the dude? I honestly see no reason to. It just make YOU look like the drama whore.

Also again, maybe you are right. I just wont condemn the guy until I see him getting toxic himself.

 

[Angry_Clown]

That's cunt behaviour.

You had no reason to suspect me wanting to jump on the dude. Your whole post is cunt-speak and cunt behaviour in which you engage for no other reason except you being a massive unapologetic cunt. Cuz you now opened people to calling each other cunts for no reason. Because I never gave you a reason to call me cunt. You just felt like it.

I had enough evidence which I provided in my post. You just chose to ignore it like a cunt you are. His reason was bullshit. His evidence does not exist and that makes a very valid reason to doubt him. But all you are doing is being a cunt.

 

[minacia]

We extremely need moderators.

I share this sentiment.

It's similar the other way around. I'm part of multiple communities that when someone calls something a 'Trap' we know what that is. Astolfo, Chevalier d'Eon, Felix, and so on. But apparently the word also has negative connotations against... Crossdressing Transgenders or trans people who dress up as their trans gender or something? I kind of ignored the entire conversation cause weeb has basically usurped any negative connotations to the word for me and I found it silly.

Yeah, but SH is also a different community than some of the other ones than you or me might be part of. SH is substantially more diverse than NU or some of the other anime-centric communities I've been in (and I think probably with the most trans/LGBT people I've seen in one place online...), and it's important to recognize that there are a lot of people part of this community.

Philosophically, I don't think there's anything wrong with using the language you like with your friends in more private spaces (I mean, nobody is hurt by it), but morally speaking, I think it's better to be considerate of the other people who are literally also using this forum. We all share this space.

Fist: it's an appropriate term for woke-whoring, so I totally can and will use it.
Second: bringing up a non-existent issue, referring to non-existent "proof" and subsequently refusing to provide said proof is a drama-seeking behaviour if I ever saw one.

It is an issue. Anyone who's been around for a few days can instantly see that SHF is less moderated than 95% of places on the internet.

There are a lot of things that happen here that wouldn't fly in other communities.

 

[Discount_Blade]

Fist: it's an appropriate term for woke-whoring, so I totally can and will use it.
Second: bringing up a non-existent issue, referring to non-existent "proof" and subsequently refusing to provide said proof is a drama-seeking behaviour if I ever saw one.




I'm stealing this.



Nothing bizarre about it. Because it is normal and always was. Nothing happens when you're offended. You do not "own" words and people's ability to utilize them however the fuck they see fit. "Oh no, some dude in the obscure thread on the internet said something offensive! And I was offended! And when I woke up next morning — I had leprosy!". Be offended, nothing will happen.

Yep. I get so tired of whiny-ass adult-child's complaining that someone said a no-no word.

 

[SailusGebel]

Words have power, bro. Revolutions, genocides and wars have all been set off by a careless or sinisterly careful use of words - that's why so many governments seek to censor literature when they want to keep the population under their thumb.

Creating slurs for groups and flinging them around as insults, implying that being part of that group is an insult, is how people grow stigma against that group. And that always leads to bad things.


It implies that someone is deceiving you by dressing the way they please, and it was extended as an insult to transgender women by the usual shitlords.

Words affect the way that others think about you. They do matter.

But what about banning the thing, making it more desirable? Forbidden fruit is the sweetest. I also want to ask this thing. If a person is offended by a word, and he meets a jerk, the jerk would try to see and look for the things that offend this particular person the most. How does not using this word from good people would help with the mental health of the said person? You can't surround yourself with good people only, and even if you can, doesn't mean everyone can do it.
If people would learn how to ignore the words they won't have so much power. Sure there are people out there with fragile mental health, but it's not a normal state of a human being. Why do slurs still being used by jerks? Because it offends people.
What would happen if the said jerks can't get the desired reaction with the words? They would try to find another word and another and another and eventually they will burn out.
It's easier said than done, but if there is this one thing, that damages the person you dislike, you would go for it. Alright, perhaps not all of us, and perhaps it's a minority that would do this. But clearly, it's the minority no one likes. Then why not start improving yourself? Instead of circling yourself in a bubble. Because when the said bubble is torn, the damage would be more severe. Am I wrong? Hope you will answer me and fill in the things I got wrong as I'm genuinely curious and not sarcastic.

 

[CupcakeNinja]

You had no reason to suspect me wanting to jump on the dude. Your whole post is cunt-speak and cunt behaviour in which you engage for no other reason except you being a massive unapologetic cunt. Cuz you now opened people to calling each other cunts for no reason. Because I never gave you a reason to call me cunt. You just felt like it.

I had enough evidence which I provided in my post. You just chose to ignore it like a cunt you are. His reason was bullshit. His evidence does not exist and that makes a very valid reason to doubt him. But all you are doing is being a cunt.

i literally do not see any of this "evidence" you speak of. You were just calling him woke and nothing else, so if you want me to believe you you're gonna have to direct me to this supposed evidence.

His lack of evidence to support HIS claim is justified. He didn't want to start shit. Then you came and started shit anyway. Jumping on the dude for being SUPPOSEDLY WOKE.

I dunno it just sounds like you're being unreasonable. But if you do provide this "evidence" I'll apologize and amend my words. But it best be solid evidence bro. I gotta be fair here

 

[Moonpearl]

It is an issue. Anyone who's been around for a few days can instantly see that SHF is less moderated than 95% of places on the internet.

There are a lot of things that happen here that wouldn't fly in other communities.

Yeah... I'm not sure how many of you guys know this, but SHF is widely considered a dumpster fire nobody wants to touch.

And that's by places that aren't even that "PC".

But what about banning the thing, making it more desirable? Forbidden fruit is the sweetest. I also want to ask this thing. If a person is offended by a word, and he meets a jerk, the jerk would try to see and look for the things that offend this particular person the most. How does not using this word from good people would help with the mental health of the said person? You can't surround yourself with good people only, and even if you can, doesn't mean everyone can do it.
If people would learn how to ignore the words they won't have so much power. Sure there are people out there with fragile mental health, but it's not a normal state of a human being. Why do slurs still being used by jerks? Because it offends people.
What would happen if the said jerks can't get the desired reaction with the words? They would try to find another word and another and another and eventually they will burn out.
It's easier said than done, but if there is this one thing, that damages the person you dislike, you would go for it. Alright, perhaps not all of us, and perhaps it's a minority that would do this. But clearly, it's the minority no one likes. Then why not start improving yourself? Instead of circling yourself in a bubble. Because when the said bubble is torn, the damage would be more severe. Am I wrong? Hope you will answer me and fill in the things I got wrong as I'm genuinely curious and not sarcastic.

When an authority stands with you against the slurs being used against you, it lets you know that they're not willing to let you become a victim of bigots. The word can be said, but you can be braver when facing it.

Slurs are an attempt to dehumanise you, so you want to know that you're in an environment that doesn't support that dehumanisation. If someone who's supposed to be a source of protection ignores it when people crowd around to publicly tear into you, it tells you that you're not someone they see as worthy of protection.

Anywhere slurs can be freely used by people who aren't part of that group almost always indicates that there's a deeper and more insiduous issue for you there.
Anyone using such slurs is telling you that they have no problem dehumanising you, and therefore aren't safe.

Basically standing against the use of slurs is the bare minimum a person can do, so it indicates big trouble if they don't. People won't be able to relax, feeling that the person using them is a ticking timebomb.

 

[CupcakeNinja]

Yep. I get so tired of whiny-ass adult-child's complaining that someone said a no-no word.

yeah if thats all it is, fuck this guy then. But, eh, there's a buncha toxicity I've seen in NUF and I'm fairly sure there'd be some here as well. And i dont support toxic assholes starting drama. Like if a person just goes on and on with an argument and doesn't let it go. Or if they say shit like "well fuck you you retarded cuck head you just dont know what you're talking about. Trash."

I have five nephews and four nieces, and all their tears combined wouldn't be as salty as some of the people I've seen losing an argument online. Once you fully degrade into name-calling and start slinging cuss words throughout the whole sentence, well guess what...ya need Daddy Cup to spank you, because you are being a toxic man-child who need to learn when to stay silent.

So I'm support speaking out against those kinda people. But not really speaking out against mere words. The word i dont care about...its the people who use them and HOW they use them that i may have a problem with.

I know a lot of people tend to feel this way -- that banning certain words is a stifling of free speech. But my view is sort of "bigger picture" about it, that the latter sentence is the stifling of free speech. Losing access to certain words < losing access to entire voices. Toxic ratbags will find a way to be toxic even if they can't call someone a slur outright, but people leaving because they don't feel the environment is safe, leaving only the toxic ratbags creates an environment where a large sect of people do not feel welcome to speak freely. It was an issue on reddit for a long long time and, on the other side of the political aisle, also on tumblr. I don't fuck with tumblr.

Unironically? I'd be down for this. You may disagree with people, but you always do so respectfully, which is cool!

a lot has to do with personal values. But yeah you make a fair point that i didn't consider: The bigger picture.

i said it here once already but i can totally change the way i speak if asked nicely. But i'll only change the way i speak to that specific person.
Which again i find fair.

So avoiding certain words to keep the peace...yeah that's a worthy sacrifice if ever there was one. And a very easy thing to do.

 

[Discount_Blade]

I'm still chuckling that half of the people here pretending to be such an advocate for "not saying the big bad words" are just as guilty as...say me for example. But its okay. It was the "other side". Fucking hypocrites. Literally the only person I can't say I've seen here name-call someone is Flucket.

 

[minacia]

But what about banning the thing, making it more desirable? Forbidden fruit is the sweetest. I also want to ask this thing. If a person is offended by a word, and he meets a jerk, the jerk would try to see and look for the things that offend this particular person the most. How does not using this word from good people would help with the mental health of the said person? You can't surround yourself with good people only, and even if you can, doesn't mean everyone can do it.
If people would learn how to ignore the words they won't have so much power. Sure there are people out there with fragile mental health, but it's not a normal state of a human being. Why do slurs still being used by jerks? Because it offends people.
What would happen if the said jerks can't get the desired reaction with the words? They would try to find another word and another and another and eventually they will burn out.
It's easier said than done, but if there is this one thing, that damages the person you dislike, you would go for it. Alright, perhaps not all of us, and perhaps it's a minority that would do this. But clearly, it's the minority no one likes. Then why not start improving yourself? Instead of circling yourself in a bubble. Because when the said bubble is torn, the damage would be more severe. Am I wrong? Hope you will answer me and fill in the things I got wrong as I'm genuinely curious and not sarcastic.

I've written a blog post on this subject before, but half the reason for having rules on behavior/language sits from a marketing perspective.

Imagine yourself as a restaurant or website owner, your goal is to make money, and there is a public restroom.

Do you think it's better for attracting customers if your store's bathroom looks like this:

Or this?

I mean, I understand that painting graffiti is fun and it's a form of expression, but when guests click on https://forum.scribblehub.com/ -- it's like a customer walking into a bathroom. Either they like what they see, or they don't. If a guest doesn't like what they see, they immediately walk out and decide they don't want to sit down at your restaurant, and you don't get their money.

It's for reasons like this that 4chan has a different reputation than Goodreads.

I personally think that SH should lean in the more mainstream direction (like Goodreads), so it's reasonable to expect that the level of moderation should be similar to those that you would find on the mainstream internet for other book discussion sites.

 

[Assurbanipal_II]

I'm still chuckling that half of the people here pretending to be such an advocate for "not saying the big bad words" are just as guilty as...say me for example. But its okay. It was the "other side". Fucking hypocrites.

They are surely as innocent as me, but aside from that, I see here problems being created that don't exist like a mirage. If this community is considered toxic ... Well, you better should switch off your internet then.

 

[Discount_Blade]

Ah, I see. When I got my nose punched in so hard it broke as a guy called me a "fucking dyke", my shortcoming was that I didn't ignore the slur. It was all the fault of my fragile mental health. Words are just sounds, they do not go hand in hand with real world prejudices that pose actual threat to people and do not act as signals to vulnerable minorities as to who is potentially unsafe to be around. We just gotta uuuuh, get a thicker skin, right?

Look, I'mma try and say this politely, because I genuinely remember being you when I was seventeen and was like "words are just sounds, we apply meaning to them" but like. Asking people who are impacted by slurs and toxic language to just "ignore the words" is just a signal of a lack of real world experience as to what those words actually indicate. They are not the Goblin King. Just yelling "you have no power over me" does not lift the prejudice curse. Turning the other cheek just presents another cheek to be hit. And moreover, "do not feed the trolls" has categorically, historically, provably not worked.

Allowing people to act in harmful and toxic ways, including the use of slurs, does not disempower them. It empowers them. It's testing the waters. Today they call someone a g**k or a n***er. Tomorrow they're going on race realism screeds and campaigning for the return of segregation. I don't want to needlessly drag politics into this because it's so messy, but this is such a bad take I want to impress upon you the danger of this thinking: just ignoring the words is how someone like Trump got into power.

Spaces that allow the use of slurs are spaces that will, inevitably, allow much much worse. You cannot make people not toxic by just banning words, but you can indicate to your users that you have a line you will not allow them to cross, and you can indicate to vulnerable minorities amongst your users that you want them to be welcome here.

No, Trump got into power because a large section of people were tired of being forced to cater to other groups who wanted to be treated "special" and have "safe spaces" from the real world.

 

[Angry_Clown]

Words have power

No, they don't. Revolutions happen because people in power let them happen to replace the ruler and using people's outrage to do it. In the end, most of the mass-atrocities committed around the world are nothing more than a tool of power-perpetuation and has very little to do with the so-called "power of words". Me swearing on the internet is simply me swearing on the internet. I ain't gonna overthrow a government. Don't like it? Well, too bad. I suspect you don't like many things, just like every other person in existence. People learn to deal with it. If they don't, their existence is generally sad and confusing.

i literally do not see any of this "evidence"

Are you Stevie Wonder, perhaps? But since you need a walkthrough, here you go:

bringing up a non-existent issue

Quick search disproves his claim of words "nigger" and "faggot" being used all over the place in supposedly "heated" discussions. Him stating otherwise is factually incorrect unless proof to the contrary is given.

referring to non-existent "proof" and subsequently refusing to provide said proof

Self-evident, should not need further explanation.

drama-seeking behaviour

The single reason for this thread's existence is drama and nothing else. Furthermore, this invalidates the whole claim for not providing proof because drama is undesirable. You create a controversial thread and expect that there won't be any drama? Then you're either an idiot or, more likely, simply a liar.

Once you fully degrade into name-calling and start slinging cuss words

Bold words for someone who just did it a couple of posts ago. Is this your repressed desire to get spanked rearing its ugly head?

 

[Angry_Clown]

just ignoring the words is how someone like Trump got into power.

No, Trump got into power

 

[Discount_Blade]

They are surely as innocent as me, but aside from that, I see here problems being created that don't exist like a mirage. If this community is considered toxic ... Well, you better should switch off your internet then.

Why would I care if its toxic? No one here is able to upset me enough to make me leave. I was just pointing out the hypocrisy they seemed to be assuming didn't include them.

 

[SailusGebel]

Yeah... I'm not sure how many of you guys know this, but SHF is widely considered a dumpster fire nobody wants to touch.

And that's by places that aren't even that "PC".


When an authority stands with you against the slurs being used against you, it lets you know that they're not willing to let you become a victim of bigots. The word can be said, but you can be braver when facing it.

Slurs are an attempt to dehumanise you, so you want to know that you're in an environment that doesn't support that dehumanisation. If someone who's supposed to be a source of protection ignores it when people crowd around to publicly tear into you, it tells you that you're not someone they see as worthy of protection.

Anywhere slurs can be freely used by people who aren't part of that group almost always indicates that there's a deeper and more insiduous issue for you there.
Anyone using such slurs is telling you that they have no problem dehumanising you, and therefore aren't safe.

Basically standing against the use of slurs is the bare minimum a person can do, so it indicates big trouble if they don't. People won't be able to relax, feeling that the person using them is a ticking timebomb.

Maybe it's my problem, but sometimes(most of the time) when authority stands with you against the slurs smells like double standards for me. Check the whole communist jokes, CYKA BLYAT, thingy going on in Europe or the USA, and how no one gives a fuck if these 'jokes' and 'memes' offend people from CIS countries. Literally no one, and then compare it with the n-word. I'm not from Europe or the USA which means I can use it? Oh, but I use the internet, and here I can meet people from all over the world, which means I can't use this particular slur. But apparently, the community with a much weaker voice isn't even recognized. No one gives a shit if you are not loud enough.
Slurs is an attempt to dehumanize me. BUT, I think, it's in my own power to decide if I WAS dehumanized or I WAS NOT. What I mean is, if someone cursing at me, first of all, I would think that a guy who is cursing at me has something wrong in his head, or he had a really shitty day. I never think that I AM actually the thing he described. Or I try to think like that.
But let's just imagine, that everyone using the word. Literally everyone. What would happen with the said word? The meaning would fade away, just like it happened with fuck, or simp, or cuckold. It became a meme, and people got tired of it. And if you see a person using these words nowadays, you think of this person as a silly one. We still have those who react painfully to this, because they have mental health issues. But does banning the word save them? The jerks are still going to use it. They still would dehumanize people with fragile mental health. It isn't enough to just ban the words. They should be helped and they should want to change as well. We can't just eradicate jerks, just like how people with fragile mental health are a minority, and they are special, these jerks are a minority of their own. Their purpose is to damage and attack people. They won't stop just because the slur is banned. They will, bully.

 

[Deleted member 29316]

All of this started because of words.

 

[BenJepheneT]

So here's my two-cents in this: on one hand, I do agree with the fact that niggas here get all moral fag whenever somebody says a bad word, regardless of context. On the other hand, I do acknowledge the slippery slope.

And by that, I'd simply suggest a case by case basis.

See, at this point, slurs, like language, has evolved into a somewhat complicated subject. On the one hand, walking up to a mentally deficient child and calling him a "sack of autistic retardation" can definitely be considered a slur, but if the same phrase is spoken against your opponents in a heated match of Rocket League, things may be different.

What I meant to say is that slurs, at this point, have become situational in their usage. Sometimes people like to spice up their language; give it a little zest, and drop a little spicy salsa to give a friendly banter. Other times, people do genuinely want to wish other bad and since they can't do shit through a monitor, all they can do is call you a nigger/faggot online.

(On a side note, I really don't understand the unironic usage of both hard r n-word and the gay f-word. After so many years of ironic humour, they've basically lost all meaning. Like Nazi/incel. The only people who still parade it like a button of Armageddon are the crazed lunatics on Twitter. I'm not saying /pol/ doesn't exist, but I am saying that it seems counterintuitive when you wanna reduce the power of a certain word.)

This is why I love this damn community. It doesn't hold you back on your language and so long as you don't post a visual representation of ten black men stuffing up a ginger a là Thanksgiving you're basically a-ok. It's far from the East Berlin that is Twitter/Tumblr, but the ample community-powered moderation keeps it from becoming another /v/ thread about the a black guy in a game.

There's certainly extremities from both sides about this subject within this thread, as evident from the many responses I've seen above. But if you ask me, I'm fine with the status quo. No one seems to genuinely want to hurt one another aside from the rare instance of a chromosome collector looking to start shit popping up from under the bridge every once in a while but other than that, everyone seems to keep themselves in check and even if they do want to start shit, they always do it very, very passive-aggresively. It's not a great thing, mind you, but it is civil, easy to manage and definitely better than two baboons screeching and reeeeeeing from the branches.

But, if it makes my fellow SHF tards feel safer, I do support the notion of a tighter moderation. Tony isn't the all-seeing, all-knowing deity as we've come to deem him as so having a sexy, busty desk assistant would definitely lighten his load.

What I do ask though, is that the moderation should be kept on a case-by-case basis. This community isn't so big that a catch-all rule has to be put in place. Any competent monkey behind a screen can adequately deduct the intentions behind reported speech and make suitable judgement. Given the relatively comfy userbase we have, I doubt we'd ever need an overhaul of the forum ruleset. Heck, we already keep ourselves in check well enough. I seriously doubt we need any major change to the moderation of the site. But, as I said, if it makes the other bridge goblins feel safer, then I'd be willing to see that change be made.

 

[Angry_Clown]

visual representation of ten black men

No need to flaunt your ban history, ok.