Is this a utopia/dystopia/something else and why?

[MajorKerina]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1185636106257211392

I have a premise vaguely similar to this comic and I was curious to kind of explore the nooks and crannies of this idea more fully. Fundamentally, it’s the same core as The Matrix but the machines are benign/caretakers for humanity. Not to spoil too much of the Matrix series but it seems like essentially the first version of the simulation.

What would make this a utopia or dystopia or not quite and why? There are a lot of different counters and I’m just running through them mentally. The human brain can be tricked into all sorts of experiences and it’s the filter through which all information and knowledge is acquired. Those who claim the problem is that the experience isn’t “real“ well any experience can be replicated either as a memory or a biochemical trigger. And there are others who say well you’re just getting bliss bliss bliss that’s terrible and people will become numb to it. Well, the experience could be modified so there are highs and lows and surprises. It might adapt to your ideal. The same concerns could be raised about an afterlife with the same counter, it would likely be your ideal existence.

Thoughts?

 

[Lloyd]

I believe such technology is fundamentally impossible on a metaphysical level thus rendering the question stupid.

 

[Cipiteca396]

The flesh is weak. Upload into VR instead.

Seriously though, it's not a dystopia because nobody is suffering or being persecuted. Unless only certain people are allowed to experience the brainjacking, or if they're being forced into it. I doubt most people would voluntarily leave once they experienced it, but it's important to have the option.

As for a utopia... Maybe? It doesn't really qualify as perfect to an outsider, but someone experiencing it may think so.

I believe such technology is fundamentally impossible on a metaphysical level thus rendering the question stupid.

Then doesn't that make answering it stupid as well? Congratulations.

 

[Lloyd]

The flesh is weak. Upload into VR instead.

Seriously though, it's not a dystopia because nobody is suffering or being persecuted. Unless only certain people are allowed to experience the brainjacking, or if they're being forced into it. I doubt most people would voluntarily leave once they experienced it, but it's important to have the option.

As for a utopia... Maybe? It doesn't really qualify as perfect to an outsider, but someone experiencing it may think so.

Then doesn't that make answering it stupid as well? Congratulations.

That doesn't even make sense. How would answering a stupid question with a good answer that points out how the question is stupid make the answerer stupid? Please think before you post.

 

[Cipiteca396]

That doesn't even make sense. How would answering a stupid question with a good answer that points out how the question is stupid make the answerer stupid? Please think before you post.

Meh, it's not my best. On the other hand, you literally write an Isekai story. A type of story which is significantly less probable than a Matrix style situation. This is a forum for authors, discussing a hypothetical topic. Your answer wasn't an answer at all, and is thus 'stupid'.

Fundamentally, it’s the same core as The Matrix but the machines are benign/caretakers for humanit

Back to the topic, it really depends on your impression of humanity. You compared it to the first matrix, which humanity broke out of. There's a reason that happened. Maybe it wouldn't happen in reality, but people would certainly try to make it happen. That conflict is where it would turn into a question of who's right and who's delusional.

 

[Lloyd]

Meh, it's not my best. On the other hand, you literally write an Isekai story. A type of story which is significantly less probable than a Matrix style situation. This is a forum for authors, discussing a hypothetical topic. Your answer wasn't an answer at all, and is thus 'stupid'.


Back to the topic, it really depends on your impression of humanity. You compared it to the first matrix, which humanity broke out of. There's a reason that happened. Maybe it wouldn't happen in reality, but people would certainly try to make it happen. That conflict is where it would turn into a question of who's right and who's delusional.

So you got so triggered by what I said you immediately decided to stalk me? Creep

 

[Snusmumriken]

It is a dystopia. It has the defining characteristics of such society (totalitarian control, lack of social or otherwise progress, suppression of identity). Brave New World is very similar to that, albeit with greater autonomy.

 

[Cipiteca396]

So you got so triggered by what I said you immediately decided to stalk me? Creep

It's linked in your signature. I always click those links when I see them for any author. I looked through your story when you rewrote the first chapter. Then I stopped reading it because the quality was low, and the plot didn't appeal to me. But have fun with your delusions.

 

[Lloyd]

It's linked in your signature. I always click those links when I see them for any author. I looked through your story when you rewrote the first chapter. Then I stopped reading it because the quality was low, and the plot didn't appeal to me. But have fun with your delusions.

Nah my quality if just fine. You clearly just have something against me.

 

[Cipiteca396]

Nah my quality if just fine. You clearly just have something against me.

Are you the one who just gave me a one star? Because that's just childish. Grow up.

 

[Lloyd]

Are you the one who just gave me a one star? Because that's just childish. Grow up.

How can one person lack this much self awareness?

 

[BenJepheneT]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1185636106257211392

I have a premise vaguely similar to this comic and I was curious to kind of explore the nooks and crannies of this idea more fully. Fundamentally, it’s the same core as The Matrix but the machines are benign/caretakers for humanity. Not to spoil too much of the Matrix series but it seems like essentially the first version of the simulation.

What would make this a utopia or dystopia or not quite and why? There are a lot of different counters and I’m just running through them mentally. The human brain can be tricked into all sorts of experiences and it’s the filter through which all information and knowledge is acquired. Those who claim the problem is that the experience isn’t “real“ well any experience can be replicated either as a memory or a biochemical trigger. And there are others who say well you’re just getting bliss bliss bliss that’s terrible and people will become numb to it. Well, the experience could be modified so there are highs and lows and surprises. It might adapt to your ideal. The same concerns could be raised about an afterlife with the same counter, it would likely be your ideal existence.

Thoughts?

It's a Utopia until someone becomes aware of it.

 

[_oinkchan]

How can one person lack this much self awareness?

I wonder who that one person is.

 

[LoliGent]

It can be either way. I mean, the world looks barren, so this is probably paradise compared to having to survive in a vast emptiness. But then again, who did this to the world? There's not enough info to go by with what we're given, so I guess it all depends on the individual and their view of life.

On a somewhat related note: I have a similar idea for a story where robots want to "upgrade" humans to be programmable like they are. Are you sad? Depressed? Suicidal? That's okay, let's just reprogram your brain so you will feel happy that you are homeless and eating out of a trashcan. You're dying from starvation? Let's activate the dopamine and shut off your pain sensors. Now you can die with a smile on your face. What's that? You're a slave and you don't like? Let's delete those hurty thoughts and replace it with the PureLoveAndDevotionToYourMaster.dll file. Now you will live happily doing backbreaking work due to the power of fake LOVE!

I'm sure my idea counts as a dystopia, but you FEEL good about it. So to you, it's paradise.

 

[K5Rakitan]

One person's utopia is another person's dystopia and vice-versa.

 

[Snusmumriken]

It can be either way. I mean, the world looks barren, so this is probably paradise compared to having to survive in a vast emptiness. But then again, who did this to the world? There's not enough info to go by with what we're given, so I guess it all depends on the individual and their view of life.

On a somewhat related note: I have a similar idea for a story where robots want to "upgrade" humans to be programmable like they are. Are you sad? Depressed? Suicidal? That's okay, let's just reprogram your brain so you will feel happy that you are homeless and eating out of a trashcan. You're dying from starvation? Let's activate the dopamine and shut off your pain sensors. Now you can die with a smile on your face. What's that? You're a slave and you don't like? Let's delete those hurty thoughts and replace it with the PureLoveAndDevotionToYourMaster.dll file. Now you will live happily doing backbreaking work due to the power of fake LOVE!

I'm sure my idea counts as a dystopia, but you FEEL good about it. So to you, it's paradise.

It doesn't matter how dystopia feels to you. It is like saying a dystopic totalitarian regime is either way, because the ruling elite lives in opulent palaces.

 

[Anon_Y_Mousse]

Leave it for the readers to decide. I think it's better not to make it clear whether it's a dystopia or a utopia. Or you can vary the answer from character to character.

 

[BenJepheneT]

It doesn't matter how dystopia feels to you. It is like saying a dystopic totalitarian regime is either way, because the ruling elite lives in opulent palaces.

But if I am that ruling elite, would that be a utopia for me? Or is it, by definition, a dystopia, just because of a lack of balance within autonomy. Does its definition vary between individuals?

If so, I'd very much like to live in that dystopia. As a ruling elite, that is.

Feels fun to rule over slaves to build monuments of me getting blown by that Zeus and rimmed by Medusa.

 

[Southdog]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1185636106257211392

I have a premise vaguely similar to this comic and I was curious to kind of explore the nooks and crannies of this idea more fully. Fundamentally, it’s the same core as The Matrix but the machines are benign/caretakers for humanity. Not to spoil too much of the Matrix series but it seems like essentially the first version of the simulation.

What would make this a utopia or dystopia or not quite and why? There are a lot of different counters and I’m just running through them mentally. The human brain can be tricked into all sorts of experiences and it’s the filter through which all information and knowledge is acquired. Those who claim the problem is that the experience isn’t “real“ well any experience can be replicated either as a memory or a biochemical trigger. And there are others who say well you’re just getting bliss bliss bliss that’s terrible and people will become numb to it. Well, the experience could be modified so there are highs and lows and surprises. It might adapt to your ideal. The same concerns could be raised about an afterlife with the same counter, it would likely be your ideal existence.

Thoughts?

Me personally? It falls into the same sort of existential horror that solipsism and a lack of agency does. The world of pleasure you are experiencing only exists inside of your head at the mercy of a "benevolent" artificial intelligence. Outside of it, you are functionally a sack of meat with zero awareness of the outside world. Reality is at the whim of whatever artificial intelligence pumps into your head. At least in regular solipsistic "It was all a dream" stories, the entire experience is still conjured up by the dreamer. Your proposed setting, a simulated paradise where your brain is tricked into experiencing a new existence, is what I'd personally say a step below just being comatose. Someone in a coma has no agency: they rarely have the capacity to think or act for themselves and have little awareness of the outside world. The proposed simulation actively takes away human agency by feeding the mind an experience of pleasure.

I place agency and autonomy above just about every other value. Having that agency stripped away from me- even if it stops me from making poor decisions and getting hurt- is infinitely worse than whatever "heaven" is there. A human being without autonomy is a slave to whatever keeps them in chains, whether they be physical, or a purely mental one. If I knew I were in this situation, I would probably call it Hell.

 

[LesserSarcasm]

One man's utopia is another's dystopia. And visa versa. Look up the original utopian ideal and think how horrifying that is in todays world. Then expolated your version.