Crisis of Faith

[K5Rakitan]

I wouldn't be bothered by it, personally. I was raised Catholic, and I still have a certain amount of faith in Jesus, but I see a little bit of God in everyone these days. Faith is also a mystery, and "mystery" was in fact a word often used in church. I don't put God in a box.

 

[Paul_Tromba]

I am an atheist nihilist, and you don't see me going around killing and stealing... You better not

We're not saying that you are or would for that matter. I was just wondering if every person on earth, if given the 100% assured knowledge that they would not be punished in the long run because they knew they could just start over; How would they act? Would the majority of humans become evil or would they retain their moral nature?

 

[DarkeReises]

I am an atheist nihilist, and you don't see me going around killing and stealing... You better not

I'm an agnostic(think is the right term for what I am) nihilist, pretty much the same thing.. I'm just indifferent towards that stuff. If there's a god or gods, cool, I'd just be interested to know about them and the mechanics behind it.

 

[TotallyHuman]

Fun fact, not everyone is a atheist nihilist and may react differently. This is particularly applicable in East Asia, where many isekaid protagonist are from, because of the weird way religion works there. Generally speaking, quite a lot of people believe in karma. So if something like that were denied, then it may shake up their psyche.

But I assume that most atheist nihilist will probably act along the lines of "good to know" and just proceed with minimal change to their behavior. At least that's what I'd do.

Good to know

 

[NotaNuffian]

To be honest, I never want to get pulled into isekai. This is just a sidetrack but the notion of getting pulled into another world while yours has not been completed/ fulfilled feels terrible.

I get that most isekai resolve this issue by saying You Died and there is no way back (a lot of shit has been at the background, not wasting word count) and that is where the religion thing also end up with.

Ignoring that most japanese are atheist, standing in front of someone who proclaimed and can somewhat prove that he/ she/ it is a being more powerful than you is jarring.

I mean, imagine you are minding your own business, then suddenly, Putin, Biden or whoever you think that has the power to fuck you upside down in a hat drop is speaking to you for some reason. That is terrifying. Now imagine that feeling amped up by a being several dimensions above you. Shit.

And if you are christian and ROB ends up not looking like what you assume, you will have an aneurysm ongoing. And all this shit is stuffed to the background.

So to me, the authors gloss it over because they lack the ability to tell how fucked up one's emotion can be during that moment (death and meeting god) because it is too overwhelming.

Death is painful.

Meeting god is terrible.

Everything is horrible.

Existence is pain.

 

[BenJepheneT]

Or how the MC often literally meets God or a godlike being and is just like "hmmm that's cool" or "she has big boobies " never even realizing the implications of the supernatural and spiritual existing and how religious people were actually right all along

I mean, unless you're a believer of a different God or devout, hail-science r/atheist whose sole purpose in life is to, probably, blow up two churches a day, you might break down or even deny reality before you.

But for most other people, they'd be more or less nonchalant at best, ambivalent at worse. If religion doesn't take a big part of one's life, they might just see it as an "aw shit, cool" moment and have question to God like "Why'd you give us AIDs?" instead of going "bro you'RE GOD HOLY FUCK AUNT MARIE WAS RIGHT GOD IS A BLACK TRANS WOMAN".

It's like showing a rare sports car to a non-gearhead. A car guy might go "Wow, a Lancia Stratos HF!", but a regular person would just be "Hey, look at that funky looking car, lmao"

 

[Temple]

It's the same reason authors gloss over or entirely skip "civilized" men and women having to kill another person, let alone a monster (see Grimgar of Fantasy and Ash for a series that does explore this angle to heartbreaking effect),

^ It's this. Isekai (in its present form) is for wish fulfillment fantasy. No one wants to get bothered.
If you want isekai that dwells on religion, go back decades ago to Chronicles of Narnia. A bunch of kids get isekaied to a foreign world and became kings and queens. The difference with modern isekai is that there was no wish fulfillment and no fan service. Narnia had a religious piece, with a Jesus form there as a Lion, and other gods there too. Yep, it can get pretty religious too. Put Narnia on Webnovel.com and it'll get trashed.

 

[Sylthix]

I feel that most classic J-fantasy novel writers (and regular ones) just don't want to include heavy philosophical focus about the existence of possible higher beings. This and how it cuts down time to showcase the main character's personality and world building since reading about a crazy person for a couple thousand words is frankly boring in most cases. Religion in J-fantasy novels don't really go beyond "church worship powerful being that doesn't actually manage nor visibly impact life at all" or "money-hungry organisation after your babies" with good reason.

• Removes the fantasy element from self-insert novels
• Topic gets heavy for younger readers leading to confusion and detachment
• Complex characterisation and world building which requires skill

That's not to say all novels do this, but the only example that comes to mind that breaks such a mold is Jobless Reincarnation and Platinum End meaning they are far and few between. To sum up, why write about boring, audience triggering and complex topics such as religious beliefs and psychology when big fire ball go boom?

 

[Redemit]

Or everyone else is a false God and you must cleanse the land crusader style...

DEUS VAULT!!!

 

[SilvCrimBlac]

DEUS VAULT!!!

DEUS *VULT!!!

 

[Daitengu]

Fun fact, not everyone is a atheist nihilist and may react differently. This is particularly applicable in East Asia, where many isekaid protagonist are from, because of the weird way religion works there. Generally speaking, quite a lot of people believe in karma. So if something like that were denied, then it may shake up their psyche.

Fun fact, not everyone is a atheist nihilist and may react differently. This is particularly applicable in East Asia, where many isekaid protagonist are from, because of the weird way religion works there. Generally speaking, quite a lot of people believe in karma. So if something like that were denied, then it may shake up their psyche.

Eh, karma is a broad topic. Which entirely depends on the specific branch of Buddhism and Hinduism. It ranges from being the excuse for birth based classism in Hinduism to just being Newton's 3rd law but applied to relationships and the environment. Or even the 70 Chinese Hells.

I can't particularly see transmigration or reincarnation to be an issue with karma. Hell, that's what Buddha and the Dahlia Llama is all about. One opted out, and the other keeps coming back.

 

[longer]

Eh, karma is a broad topic. Which entirely depends on the specific branch of Buddhism and Hinduism. It ranges from being the excuse for birth based classism in Hinduism to just being Newton's 3rd law but applied to relationships and the environment. Or even the 70 Chinese Hells.

I can't particularly see transmigration or reincarnation to be an issue with karma. Hell, that's what Buddha and the Dahlia Llama is all about. One opted out, and the other keeps coming back.

Yeah it depends a lot on the person and the branch. But for instance, a middle aged neet gets reincarnated into an actually decent isekai world. While some see this as a second chance, some could question that they don't deserve it due to some of their actions during their previous life. Perhaps they think the isekai comes with a caveat.

Though I think I'm a bit out of touch with East Asian culture and religion, particularly karma. Last experience I had with this was a drunken conversation with my taxi driver about how he'd go to the shrine and pray for goodluck with his gambling, which he acknowledged as something he shouldn't be doing.

 

[TotallyHuman]

One opted out, and the other keeps coming back.

Guess who's back?
Back again?

Guess who's back
Guess who's back
Guess who's back
Nanana, nae nae nae nae
Nanana, na na na na
Pshhhh

 

[AryaX]

Aside from whether people would turn into wanton murderers, rapists, thieves, etc, if they believed there were no afterlife punishments and rewards...

What about enduring this life?

If people knew, and I mean TRULY knew that once they die, they just get reincarnated into new life, how many of those who got dealt a shitty hand in this life would continue to endure through their shitty life, and how many would just skip to the next one, and next, and next, killing them selves over and over and over, until they got dealt a better looking hand?

 

[CL]

Aside from whether people would turn into wanton murderers, rapists, thieves, etc, if they believed there were no afterlife punishments and rewards...

What about enduring this life?

If people knew, and I mean TRULY knew that once they die, they just get reincarnated into new life, how many of those who got dealt a shitty hand in this life would continue to endure through their shitty life, and how many would just skip to the next one, and next, and next, killing them selves over and over and over, until they got dealt a better looking hand?

This is why I believe those who are reincarnated don't remember anything because their immature body holds a far too large consciousness and "leaks" or squelches the excess of what cannot be contained. I don't think a life within the womb has ever been memorable for a reason. No one can remember that time of their life. If they remembered their past life, yes, I believe they would repeatedly reroll their chances at a convenient life, but they don't.

As for the isekai'ed people who've met with some deity or for no apparent reason had remembered, I'd say they are exceptions. Those reincarnations are receiving "miracles" in their new world and life for whatever reason the "higher cosmic powers" deemed necessary. And I count authors among those "high cosmic powers".

 

[Cipiteca396]

by being reincarnated or summoned there is a pretty good or very certain chance that everything they've believed in up until this point is wrong?

Tbh, any religious person can have such a moment in real, daily life. Just the fact that multiple religions exist is more than enough evidence that all of them are wrong. Why should the one true god tolerate the existence of religions that worship a false god?

The people who can believe in god are already blind to being convinced otherwise. If they woke up in a world where their religion didn't exist, they would deny that reality and think something like, "Oh, God must have put me here to spread the word." or "This world is more than I expected to exist, but it is still within God's power to have created it. This changes nothing." That is 'Faith'.

I also mentioned the absence of faith I think would be really world-shattering for an atheist to meet an actual godlike being. That straight grabbed their soul and brought it to a different plane of reality.

Meeting a Godlike being is NOT the same as meeting God. An atheist (as opposed to an agnostic who holds reasonable doubt) actively denies the existence of God. Meeting a Godlike being can be chalked up to 'sufficiently advanced alien life form' or something similar. It's certainly powerful, but it's not really the big G.

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I didn't quote whoever brought it up, but as for the nihilism that comes from knowing there's no punishment... Actually, I'm not sure people can change so easily. If you grew up looking over your shoulder for Santa Claus, even if you suddenly realized he doesn't exist, you'd keep looking over your shoulder.

There might be some people who genuinely fear God's Wrath while also being hopelessly immoral. Somehow I doubt it's a large percentage of people though. Most either already don't believe and will stick to their current behavior or genuinely want to follow the rules. Being told there's no rules will cause them to make up new rules to follow.

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If I had anything else to say, I got bored and forgot what it was.