Math as Magic: Interesting or boring idea?

[theenngee]

I had this idea about a story/setting for a while now and I was wondering whether it sounds interesting to you:
It would feature "math as magic" as in that certain geometrics/projection effects of mathematical phenomena would be used to explain magic, leading to a very pure and close-to-reality system of magic that required little in-world rules. It would mainly be about the protagonist figuring these things out while travelling a world outside of normal bounds of forests plains and mountains and find his way back home.
Now when I say "math" I dont mean "calculus" or "arithmatic". there would be no calculations necessary for the readers or characters to understand how certain "spells" work, only strictly logical concepts.
Do you think this could be interesting to a reader base?
Are you a mathematician or a math-wiz and would like to help me figure a few things out? I have only surface-level experience in higher geometry, basically anything that I glean from the internet.

 

[SailusGebel]

If you only have a surface-level experience, it would be boring.

 

[ThockyKeyboard]

I had this idea about a story/setting for a while now and I was wondering whether it sounds interesting to you:
It would feature "math as magic" as in that certain geometrics/projection effects of mathematical phenomena would be used to explain magic, leading to a very pure and close-to-reality system of magic that required little in-world rules. It would mainly be about the protagonist figuring these things out while travelling a world outside of normal bounds of forests plains and mountains and find his way back home.
Now when I say "math" I dont mean "calculus" or "arithmatic". there would be no calculations necessary for the readers or characters to understand how certain "spells" work, only strictly logical concepts.
Do you think this could be interesting to a reader base?
Are you a mathematician or a math-wiz and would like to help me figure a few things out? I have only surface-level experience in higher geometry, basically anything that I glean from the internet.

I think it's a pretty bold idea and hard to execute? You'll need to have a solid knowledge of math and that's hardddd. I mean my math test is almost always bellow fourty _(:3 」∠)_ You might as well try it but yeah it's gonna be really hard. Like you're trying to write a lawyer character not knowing what's in a lawyers day to day job.

 

[Habtamu]

math=boring.

 

[Lloyd]

Boring. Magic is an art not a science! It comes from the soul, not arbitrary numbers!

 

[Amok]

go for it, magic is fantastical so the author is free to create any system for it. If you find it interesting, develop it. There's a passage from Vance's 'Tales of the Dying Earth' which I always remember:

Spoiler: TotDE

In this fashion did Turjan enter his apprenticeship to Pandelume. Day and far into the opalescent Embelyon night he worked under Pandelume's unseen tutelage. He learned the secret of renewed youth, many spells of the ancients, and a strange abstract lore that Pandelume termed "Mathematics."

"Within this instrument," said Pandelume, "resides the Universe.

Passive in itself and not of sorcery, it elucidates every problem, each phase of existence, all the secrets of time and space. Your spells and runes are built upon its power and codified according to a great underlying mosaic of magic. The design of this mosaic we cannot surmise; our knowledge is didactic, empirical, arbitrary. Phandaal glimpsed the pattern and so was able to formulate many of the spells which bear his name. I have endeavored through the ages to break the clouded glass, but so far my research has failed. He who discovers the pattern will know all of sorcery and be a man powerful beyond comprehension."

So Turjan applied himself to the study and learned many of the simpler routines.

"I find herein a wonderful beauty," he told Pandelume. "This is no science, this is art, where equations fall away to elements like resolving chords, and where always prevails a symmetry either explicit or multiplex, but always of a crystalline serenity."

Magic system pretty basic in his stories, inspired the spell-slot system for DnD iirc, but the idea that the universe's very complexity is the code through which magic operates is enticing. Either way, I love the concept of magic as science, basically an understanding of core principles so complex that the resulting applications are fantastical.

 

[Agentt]

I had this idea about a story/setting for a while now and I was wondering whether it sounds interesting to you:
It would feature "math as magic" as in that certain geometrics/projection effects of mathematical phenomena would be used to explain magic, leading to a very pure and close-to-reality system of magic that required little in-world rules. It would mainly be about the protagonist figuring these things out while travelling a world outside of normal bounds of forests plains and mountains and find his way back home.
Now when I say "math" I dont mean "calculus" or "arithmatic". there would be no calculations necessary for the readers or characters to understand how certain "spells" work, only strictly logical concepts.
Do you think this could be interesting to a reader base?
Are you a mathematician or a math-wiz and would like to help me figure a few things out? I have only surface-level experience in higher geometry, basically anything that I glean from the internet.

Yes, this would be very interesting, a new type of system is always welcomed. I could help you out if you don't mind?

 

[Paul_Tromba]

I used a math/physics based style of magic system in my main series. Though it was one of many styles. It worked out well for those that weren't born with any natural magic abilities so it allowed for some balance in the world. Even though it was a hassle to get right, it did make a lot of sense and worked well for the story.

 

[T.K._Paradox]

I used a math/physics based style of magic system in my main series. Though it was one of many styles. It worked out well for those that weren't born with any natural magic abilities so it allowed for some balance in the world. Even though it was a hassle to get right, it did make a lot of sense and worked well for the story.

Time to divide the universe by zero.

 

[Paul_Tromba]

Time to divide the universe by zero.

One character did do that but instead of the universe breaking he just switched dimensional planes.

 

[T.K._Paradox]

One character did do that but instead of the universe breaking he just switched dimensional planes.

That... Makes mathematical sense.

Considering the only physical representation of being divided by zero is going exponentially forever on all sides of a quadrant based graph.

 

[kingsky123]

erfworld did something in that line - it was called mathemagic

basically it calculated probabilities of results via using math and statistics. since the premise is somewhat an isekai table-top game, the dice roll and actions can be factored in using math

 

[Paul_Tromba]

That... Makes mathematical sense.

Considering the only physical representation of being deicide by zero is going exponentially forever on all sides of a quadrant based graph.

The amount of research that I had to do just to figure out how said characters magic worked was way more than I wanted to do. However, the payoff was great. Said character went insane.

 

[Cipiteca396]

I tend to say math enhances magic, rather than defines it.

But the idea of precise measurements and formulas determining how magic works is basically the default in most hard magic stories and even in real life, as evidenced by the old Alchemists.

 

[Deeprotsorcerer]

Execution execution execution. Anything you build that has a semblance of logic that applies limits to your magic system confounds the fact that in reality, magic is "whatever the plot demands it to be" from a writer's standpoint. It isn't important that you actually make a working system, but one that the audience believes works.

To achieve such an effect, you need consistency, a certain amount of "depth", and spectacle, though an excess of any one of these elements can make up for any shortcomings in others. Look at the difference between the portrayal of magic in vanilla Naruto to late Naruto: Shippuden for an example of a series that goes from leaning on a semblance of rules and logic to relying almost entirely on spectacle alone while still managing to be successful.

What you should really be asking yourself is if you find building a magic system on mathematics fun, because if so, your love and indulgence will bleed into the readers more easily.

 

[longer]

High level magic probably going to be a few pages worth of calculus equations.

 

[theenngee]

Thank you all for the replies so far, lot to consider :D
But as I said: no calculus or arithemtic. Most of it would be geometry, topology.
Now I just need to figure out some specifics like anrration style, language and story.
I hope I can stay myself from writing for long enough to figure it out so i don't get second thoughts later down the line.

 

[BearlyAlive]

So you want to make your magic something that turns its users insane, doesn't make sense, is only useable by a selected few and is universally hated by everyone but its users?

 

[Ai-chan]

I had this idea about a story/setting for a while now and I was wondering whether it sounds interesting to you:
It would feature "math as magic" as in that certain geometrics/projection effects of mathematical phenomena would be used to explain magic, leading to a very pure and close-to-reality system of magic that required little in-world rules. It would mainly be about the protagonist figuring these things out while travelling a world outside of normal bounds of forests plains and mountains and find his way back home.
Now when I say "math" I dont mean "calculus" or "arithmatic". there would be no calculations necessary for the readers or characters to understand how certain "spells" work, only strictly logical concepts.
Do you think this could be interesting to a reader base?
Are you a mathematician or a math-wiz and would like to help me figure a few things out? I have only surface-level experience in higher geometry, basically anything that I glean from the internet.

Ai-chan doesn't think it's as farfetched as it seems. Eastern Numerology is basically math magic. Using your knowledge, you can calculate the optimum time for rituals and create effects that seems like outlandish magic. If an applied math professor were to visit a primitive society, his application of math would be pretty magical to this society.

That being said, this section is for story feedback ONLY. Discussions about elements of your story should not be done in this section.

 

[T.K._Paradox]

High level magic probably going to be a few pages worth of calculus equations.

Step one of destroying the planet:
Learn how to make a self sustaining energy source, then you cast said energy source as a destruction spell.