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Baltazyr

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Hey @TheTrinary. This is an awesome thread, and thanks so much for doing this for almost two years now! Just started posting my first novel, so I'll throw my hat in the ring too. You said no prologues, so here's Chapter 1.

*takes a deep breath and tries not to get any hopes too high*
 
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ElijahRyne

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UPDATE: Be sure to check out my other thread and my Youtube channel: https://forum.scribblehub.com/threads/looking-for-things-to-review.6228/
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUJHTBWLa93g8k9SAXCgSzw

So I saw this done elsewhere and thought it would be fun.


If anyone wants to volunteer, I'll read your very first chapter (not prologue or anything else) and based solely on that I'll give a quick opinion on whether or not I'd continue reading the entire work. It's like a mini review for the first chapter and the ability to hook the audience!

I can make no guarantees with how contemporaneous it will be, but I'll try and stay up with this thread the best I can.

And if it seems I missed you on the review, just send me a message. There's a lot of stuff and it's entirely possible I could accidently skip someone.


Since this thread has become pretty prolific, I figured I'd make a best of the best list. My personal favorite three starting chapters are:

1. Caninstinct https://www.scribblehub.com/series/62445/caninstinct/
2. Ange'ls Dirge https://www.scribblehub.com/series/229892/angels-dirge/
3. Queensmen https://www.scribblehub.com/series/163971/queensmen/
4. Hive https://www.scribblehub.com/series/334266/hive/
How about this one
 

TheTrinary

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Corty

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Pick one.
Neither, if that is possible. Instead of this if that is fine by you:

 

Kidd_Wadsworth

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I'd also love feedback.
Alternate Scribble Hub Cover.png
 

TheTrinary

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I would love you to checking out the 1st chapter of my book.

You need to take it to square one and just focus on the fundamentals of writing.

I haven't found a way of explaining much without being horribly dissuasive. Maybe start out by making sure each sentence has a full, independant clause.
I'm currently floating aimlessly, and I supposed that some feedback would change that. I'd really appreciate any commentary about my story guys! Thanks in advance!

Would not keep reading.

I would recommend simplifying. You're prose is overly verbose and unfocused. Other sentences have mistakes that seemed to be created by the same problem. Start simple and build from there. There is room for flowerly language and thick description, but you need to place that on top of a solid foundation. Without a foundation that resonates with the reader, it seems excessive.
Hey Stephen,

I'm relatively new on this platform, but I saw this posting and figured I'd throw my story at your pile :) There shouldn't be many issues in the way of grammar, so that shouldn't get in your way. I'm would just like to hear whatever you feel like sharing. Impressions? Suggestions? Assumptions? Just let me know if you have any questions!

Thanks in advance,
jtwrites

Would not keep reading.

There's something fun here, but I think your biggest enemy is the prose. It's technically competent, but it also steps on your story's toes. One of the key features that seperates amateur works and professional is the efficiency of the information being conveyed. 90% of all words should add something.

I think you're drastically under that. I would absolutely take the axe to a lot of this to clean it up. I'll give an example:

The dark brown wolf wrangles the long bones together and tries to conceal them in the already overflowing bathroom closet. He finally manages to latch the door after fighting a near avalanche for several minutes. He sighs and slides to the floor with his back to the door. “Geez,” he complains. “That was almost not worth the effort. But at least that’s done now.”

My version:

The Big Bad Wolf's arms droop under the weight of the bones. He smashes them into the already crowded closet and uses his shoulder to keep the avalance already there from falling. "Geez," he complains, "that was not worth the effort."

Explanation.

Sentence One: You're evoking Red Riding Hood which everyone knows. The fact that you don't then evoke his name is weird and instead describe him. This is a bit pointless because we already have a picture of the wolf in our mind. "Wrangles. . . together." is redundant. Not to mention if they are in his arms, we can safely assume he picked them up. And then you go out of your way to say he "conceals" them. Putting them in a closest is obviously concealing. You're wasting our time by not letting the verbs do the heavy lifting. "Overflowing bathroom closet". This is pretty much covered by the next sentence. Once again, huge amounts of repition.

Sentence two: "Several minutes" is weak and pointless. "fighting" doesn't paint a picture in our minds and is a weak choice of description. "Latch the door", I have nothing against this in principle.

Sentence three: Completely redundant. The next sentence's "Geez" already shows exhaustion or frustration. And even if it wasn't there, what does this add? It's wholey unimportant.

Sentence four/five: First off, I'm not sure why this is two sentences. Second, Almost undercuts the idea of the sentence. You are showing that he is tired and aggravated. It conflicts with the overall mood. And finally, "But at least that's done now" is also pointless. We see that by the fact that he's done. You're just wasting our time.

OVERALL:
You used 64 words. I used 40. And I think I managed to include a bit more voice and personality in mine. So as a letter grade, you're aiming for 90% efficiency (professional) you're at 62%.
Hey, would be keen on a review of my book?

I messaged you to check. I can't believe you're still doing reviews - many years onwards.

Time flies huh? I'm defintley not as fast getting to stories as I used to be (haha). Anyway, as far as your story goes: Would keep reading this.

It's a bit uneven in terms of what works and what doesn't it. I think a lot of what you have is absolutely perfect. Techically and even on a story telling level the writing is quite good. Where you get lost is the structure. It's a rare complaint and one I don't bring up unless everything else is there. The effect is that things get a little confused or hard to follow. It has nothing to do with starting us in the action. It has nothing to do with the cut aways giving us explanation.

It's all an issue in the logical progression of the elements. Not to say that what's on screen isn't logical, but I think if you apply the standard three act structure here, it's going to make a lot more sense and be easier to read. 25% build a foundation, 50% explore the idea that you set up, 25% resolution. And within that, you would ideally have a continuous escalation of threat/stakes/other important element.
Would love some of your feedback on my first chapter. I just realized how much I focus on character thoughts and was wondering whether it's more of an issue instead of a narrative style.

https://www.scribblehub.com/series/611236/tethered-by-the-soul-system/
Would keep reading.

This was pretty good. Your focus on character was not only an attribute but the star of the show. Don't you dare apologize for that. I would agree that it overshadows the action, but that isn't a problem on the character side. It's just that the other elements are boring by comparison; if you tone down the character, it won't make those more interesting.

And i'm not saying the rest was a flat line by any means. You immeadiatly got my attention wtih some character beats and voice, and you had some intelligent play with ideas that caught my attention again. It was aware of its audience and the genre. There was a perfect moment there when you were playing with the reader and the expectation of an portal fantasy. Now I do think you went to far here when you started blatantly pointing it out and even mentioning "isekaid".

So overall, I think it's quite good and there's room for improvement in some areas. My personal preference would be to keep playing with audience expectation without being outright blatant. Maybe pump up the setting with some fun observations. There's a lot you can do here.
Hey @TheTrinary. This is an awesome thread, and thanks so much for doing this for almost two years now! Just started posting my first novel, so I'll throw my hat in the ring too. You said no prologues, so here's Chapter 1.

*takes a deep breath and tries not to get any hopes too high*
To be fair. I'll do prologues if specifically asked, otherwise I skip to chapter 1. In terms of your story: would not keep reading.

I think there is a lot of good here and a lot of potential. However (obviously there is a however), I think there are a lot of issues as well that hurt enjoyment when reading.

We have some logical nonsequitors: P1, MC went to this school for this one class. P2, MC hates this class. Huh? That could be fun or even clever if there was an idea of progression, like she became disilusioned, but that isn't here. It's very strange.

Exposition: This was confusing in terms of the authorial intent. You start us off with potential exposition only for your MC to show some personality and blow it off. Which was VERY GOOD. Not only do we relate to being in a boring classroom and get to see some personality, but it sneakily throws some exposition at us. It's a little too silly in my opinion, but it's there.

BUT THEN you then throw straight exposition at us in the next section. Which is it? Is exposition boring organically or are we being spoon fed exposition by the author. Not only is that disonance there, but you already achieved greatness. That professor speach, while a bit too nebulous, gave us all we really needed to know about the world. At least for one chapter. We have some world building. We have some terms. The audience has a vague impression, so now we can go and learn about characters and have real problems and– nope. Stopping for exposition. It's very strange.

Finally, it's pretty unfocused. It's not really about one thing. We have four scenes, a bunch of different characters, no real conflict or goal. You do want to establish setting and characters early, but it still needs to be about something. And the more scenes and characters you introduce, the harder it is to establish characters. Every story ever is a reverse funnel. You start a point and build out. I'd sure like to see something more focused here.

So overall, I think you were really close to that line in terms of would or wouldn't keep reading. You write well and there's a lot here that works conceptually. I think you are just having a hard to properly framing your elements or sorting through them logically.
 
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Baltazyr

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To be fair. I'll do prologues if specifically asked, otherwise I skip to chapter 1. In terms of your story: would not keep reading.

I think there is a lot of good here and a lot of potential. However (obviously there is a however), I think there are a lot of issues as well that hurt enjoyment when reading.

We have some logical nonsequitors: P1, MC went to this school for this one class. P2, MC hates this class. Huh? That could be fun or even clever if there was an idea of progression, like she became disilusioned, but that isn't here. It's very strange.

Exposition: This was confusing in terms of the authorial intent. You start us off with potential exposition only for your MC to show some personality and blow it off. Which was VERY GOOD. Not only do we relate to being in a boring classroom and get to see some personality, but it sneakily throws some exposition at us. It's a little too silly in my opinion, but it's there.

BUT THEN you then throw straight exposition at us in the next section. Which is it? Is exposition boring organically or are we being spoon fed exposition by the author. Not only is that disonance there, but you already achieved greatness. That professor speach, while a bit too nebulous, gave us all we really needed to know about the world. At least for one chapter. We have some world building. We have some terms. The audience has a vague impression, so now we can go and learn about characters and have real problems and– nope. Stopping for exposition. It's very strange.

Finally, it's pretty unfocused. It's not really about one thing. We have four scenes, a bunch of different characters, no real conflict or goal. You do want to establish setting and characters early, but it still needs to be about something. And the more scenes and characters you introduce, the harder it is to establish characters. Every story ever is a reverse funnel. You start a point and build out. I'd sure like to see something more focused here.

So overall, I think you were really close to that line in terms of would or wouldn't keep reading. You write well and there's a lot here that works conceptually. I think you are just having a hard to properly framing your elements or sorting through them logically.
All right. Discouraging, but not unexpected. Can't really do much about the first chapter since it's already out, but I'll keep all that in mind for future projects and chapters. I appreciate the feedback, mate!
 

MrPopocap

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UPDATE: Be sure to check out my other thread and my Youtube channel: https://forum.scribblehub.com/threads/looking-for-things-to-review.6228/
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUJHTBWLa93g8k9SAXCgSzw

So I saw this done elsewhere and thought it would be fun.


If anyone wants to volunteer, I'll read your very first chapter (not prologue or anything else) and based solely on that I'll give a quick opinion on whether or not I'd continue reading the entire work. It's like a mini review for the first chapter and the ability to hook the audience!

I can make no guarantees with how contemporaneous it will be, but I'll try and stay up with this thread the best I can.

And if it seems I missed you on the review, just send me a message. There's a lot of stuff and it's entirely possible I could accidently skip someone.


Since this thread has become pretty prolific, I figured I'd make a best of the best list. My personal favorite three starting chapters are:

1. Caninstinct https://www.scribblehub.com/series/62445/caninstinct/
2. Ange'ls Dirge https://www.scribblehub.com/series/229892/angels-dirge/
3. Queensmen https://www.scribblehub.com/series/163971/queensmen/
4. Hive https://www.scribblehub.com/series/334266/hive/
Hey, can you please give me a feedback?


I think that while my story serves to read and pass the time , my first chapter wasn't as good as I wanted.
 

TheTrinary

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How about this one
Would keep reading.

The ratio of exposition/world building to actual character work or narrative is a little lopsided for me, but I liked it. It's well written and even those parts that went a bit too far were very good on their own right. It's not perfect, but I was fairly entertained by something that could very, very easiliy have been boring in someone else's hands.

Also that cold open was interesting in retrospect. It has a very poetic feel too it. Which makes it more interesting in contrast to the normal prose. Not saying I'd want that the entire time, mind you. I breathed a sigh of relief when we moved to standard, but it's interesting that your'e attempting style.
 

TheTrinary

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Neither, if that is possible. Instead of this if that is fine by you:

Middle of the road with this one. I guess I'll say would not keep reading.

I like a lot of what you have going on here. Good start. Fun concept. Conceptually, I was engaged.

The downside is in a lot of the execution. A lot of both the dialogue and writing I found grating. The way the characters speak very often has a stilted, unnatural quality to it. And that's mostly how you're building them up and characterizing them so that hurt too.

And then you handled a lot of scene setting and exposition too clunky. It's the rare case of when someone takes "show don't tell" too far: "This suit was based on a human template Pa, it should filter out all kinds of diseases!"

Noone would ever say this. It's okay just to put that in the third person. Don't spoon feed exposition with dialogue. Especially if it's information the characters wouldn't say because they both know it.
I'd also love feedback.
View attachment 16039
Would keep reading.

The rare "Wants to be a genuine novel and feels like it". These are my favorite to talk about, so I'll just talk about it on a more professional scale than I normally use, if you don't mind.

You're prose is generally nice. It doesn't hit perfectly in a few areas and could use a line edit, but it's only a handful of words I think need inspecting; you pivot exceptionally well between action, character thoughts, dialogue, and expesition, and it's just a good first chapter in terms of establishment and action.

I do have some glaring faults to find here, however. Thinking about this professionally, if an agent had this, I don't see it being enough. You have an issue with the overall flow of action. It's very choppy and I have some questions here. You have a paragraph break early on. It made sense when it happened, but then the rest of the chapter jumped back and forth between outside and in? Why was that there?

And this gets into a larger issue of perspective. There are plenty of ways a writer can go about framing a scene, but it gets confusing when it isn't abundently clear how they are doing that. We start laser focused on the Nana character, but then we jump around to this and that. I'm not saying it can't work, but it felt disjointed here. I would trim a lot of this downand present things more streamlined. You can convey a lot of this information without these constant swaps.

Finally, there was a lack of authorial voice here, and this is your achilles heel. Everything else an editor can fix/assist in a couple minutes. But a lot of this is presented very flat without much personality. You have some flowery prose up front and its very self important, but even that goes away. I'm looking for character details that feel nuanced and surprisingly real. I'm looking for action that's sharp. I don't know the word for the opposite of sharp in writing, but this is it. It's all well written and FINE, but it all feels horribly safe without the intent to entertain or engage.
All right. Discouraging, but not unexpected. Can't really do much about the first chapter since it's already out, but I'll keep all that in mind for future projects and chapters. I appreciate the feedback, mate!
And like I said, there is a lot of good here. It was borderline on that thumbs up or down. So don't be discouraged. Having something that genuinley works and that you can build off of is exactly what you want. The part that worked, that core kernel, was better than most stories I give a thumbs up to. It just's a matter of focusing down on that now.
Hey, can you please give me a feedback?


I think that while my story serves to read and pass the time , my first chapter wasn't as good as I wanted.
Would not keep reading.

The writing is very. . . weak. Multiple outright mistakes, including in your first sentence. You are slow to convey iformation and do it inefficiently. Focus on your fundamentals and work at the prose. Maybe read it aloud, I find that helps me.
I'm going to approach this one in a way I have never done before, with a question.

How many words, do you reckon, are in your first chapter?
 
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Rookieqw

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I'm going to approach this one in a way I have never done before, with a question.

How many words, do you reckon, are in your first chapter?
If my memory serves me correctly, there are 15 331 words. Oh, wait, it is the number from the prologue. In the first chapter, there are around 33 100 words.
 

Jovilynx

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Shoot at me!

 

TheTrinary

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If my memory serves me correctly, there are 15 331 words. Oh, wait, it is the number from the prologue. In the first chapter, there are around 33 100 words.
How many words per page in a normal book?
Or I guess what I'm asking is, how many pages is your first chapter?
 

Rookieqw

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Or I guess what I'm asking is, how many pages is your first chapter?
According to Word, there are 48 pages.

Yes, I can see the problem. It is unfair to abuse your generosity this way, I went overboard. Sorry about this, forget that I asked.
 

TheTrinary

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According to Word, there are 48 pages.

Yes, I can see the problem. It is unfair to abuse your generosity this way, I went overboard. Sorry about this, forget that I asked.
mm I'm not even talking about that necessarily.

48 is way too much for anyone to read in a single chapter. HOWEVER, your count is off. If you double space it and put the appropriate 300 words per page it's around 100 pages. Your first chapter is about 1/3 of a standard novel. It would be one thing if it was a stylistic choice not to have chapters. . . but you do. And they are wayyyyyy too much.

Let's assume I want to read the entire thing. There's no chance I can do that in a single sitting. So how do I even know where I stopped?
 

Rookieqw

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mm I'm not even talking about that necessarily.

48 is way too much for anyone to read in a single chapter. HOWEVER, your count is off. If you double space it and put the appropriate 300 words per page it's around 100 pages. Your first chapter is about 1/3 of a standard novel. It would be one thing if it was a stylistic choice not to have chapters. . . but you do. And they are wayyyyyy too much.

Let's assume I want to read the entire thing. There's no chance I can do that in a single sitting. So how do I even know where I stopped?
I understand the problem. When I only started writing, I assumed that bigger was better. It took me a long time to understand that smaller chapters are more convenient for the reader, and now I am only putting out about 3,000 words max. Sadly, I simply see no way to "cut" or "spread" my earlier chapters now, it will be so confusing to my current readers if I make a bunch of new chapters with the same content.

Hopefully, my next novel will be easier to read thanks to the lessons I learned from this one.
 

MrPopocap

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UPDATE: Be sure to check out my other thread and my Youtube channel: https://forum.scribblehub.com/threads/looking-for-things-to-review.6228/
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUJHTBWLa93g8k9SAXCgSzw

So I saw this done elsewhere and thought it would be fun.


If anyone wants to volunteer, I'll read your very first chapter (not prologue or anything else) and based solely on that I'll give a quick opinion on whether or not I'd continue reading the entire work. It's like a mini review for the first chapter and the ability to hook the audience!

I can make no guarantees with how contemporaneous it will be, but I'll try and stay up with this thread the best I can.

And if it seems I missed you on the review, just send me a message. There's a lot of stuff and it's entirely possible I could accidently skip someone.


Since this thread has become pretty prolific, I figured I'd make a best of the best list. My personal favorite three starting chapters are:

1. Caninstinct https://www.scribblehub.com/series/62445/caninstinct/
2. Ange'ls Dirge https://www.scribblehub.com/series/229892/angels-dirge/
3. Queensmen https://www.scribblehub.com/series/163971/queensmen/
4. Hive https://www.scribblehub.com/series/334266/hive/
Hey... how about this first chapter? https://www.scribblehub.com/series/619639/reincarnated-as-poseidon-in-gow/

I tried to do better than the other one and i think i succeed!
 

TheTrinary

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I understand the problem. When I only started writing, I assumed that bigger was better. It took me a long time to understand that smaller chapters are more convenient for the reader, and now I am only putting out about 3,000 words max. Sadly, I simply see no way to "cut" or "spread" my earlier chapters now, it will be so confusing to my current readers if I make a bunch of new chapters with the same content.

Hopefully, my next novel will be easier to read thanks to the lessons I learned from this one.
3,000 is good for a web novel.

If you want to break up longer chapters, you can just put chapter 1(1) 1(2) etc. I've seen that done before. But the optics of having a ten part+ final chapter might not play that well.
 
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