A few little ideas

Assurbanipal_II

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:blob_cookie: We all here like scribblehub, or at least you have a passing interest in its continued existence.

Therefore, I would like to suggest a few changes that could be made.

a) I would like to see an option for getting an automatic notification when certain stories are updated and receive a new chapters. Not obligatory, but facultative. :blob_evil_two:

b) Being able to remove your given ratings.:blobtaco: Maybe I have overlooked it, but so far I haven't found any possible way to remove ratings you have given. If you have rated a story, you can only change them by going higher or lower, but not delete them when you have changed your opinion.

c) Perhaps a list for stories you have rated would be useful, or a list for all stories that you have somehow interacted with that runs in the background like a browsing history. :blob_hide:

On a less serious note,

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam and that ratings should be made public for the authors of the respective stories.
 
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Ace_Arriande

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Agree with the main three suggestions. As for that last suggestion... heck, I'll agree with it too now if it's only the author being able to see who left the rating.
 

Rellawing

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If we must keep the rating system, to go on from what Assu said, I suggest that if ratings are removable by authors, some ratings can be locked in place by moderators. :blob_hmm: What this means is, if a rate was debated, a reader reported a story for their opinion being suppressed, nya, the moderator can reinstate the removed rating and explain to the author what the reason was and why it was locked in place. This would enforce honest rating and reviews! <3 *purrs* :blob_gift:
 

Rinne

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Regarding the updates, definitely agree. It would help especially for irregularly released stories. Whether it be over the Follow Author or as an option for Reading Lists, either would be fine I guess? But personally the one I'd like to see the most. Also something I want to see in NU *cough*

Ratings are currently not removeable but I remember Tony mentioning somewhere that it is a planned feature, so we just gotta wait for that. Anytime soon.

The rated list would be really nice as well. I remember having rated some stuff but I can't remember which ones since they aren't in my Reading Lists. Though, personally I guess it's more a convenient gimmick rather than something necessary.


As for the less serious suggestion a less serious opinion, unless we can ensure that the authors are unable to abuse this either I don't agree with it.
I also honestly don't want to see if someone I know rated it anything lower than 5* because I like my 5*s.
The most I can agree with is, if the rating is already public in the Reading Lists. You can kind of just check your Recent Readers if you can find the new rating in someone's Reading List. I've found quite a few ratings that way. And if an author nonetheless abuses it at that point, they should at the very least lose access to this list. Still, I personally prefer it stays anonymous.
Anyway, we talked about that more than enough already. I wholeheartedly agree with the other three suggestions.
 

Rellawing

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I have to continue with a bit more: Why do I think my idea is a good one? Because right now we can't trust good ratings nor bad ratings. They're equally untrustworthy. But if the raters had to go through a few hoops to make a bad rating stick, you would know that rating actually was worth something. You can definitely and accurately assume that people genuinely like a story for the most part if they bothered to rate, nya. (y) Make bad ratings actually mean something.
 

Assurbanipal_II

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Regarding the updates, definitely agree. It would help especially for irregularly released stories. Whether it be over the Follow Author or as an option for Reading Lists, either would be fine I guess? But personally the one I'd like to see the most. Also something I want to see in NU *cough*

Ratings are currently not removeable but I remember Tony mentioning somewhere that it is a planned feature, so we just gotta wait for that. Anytime soon.

The rated list would be really nice as well. I remember having rated some stuff but I can't remember which ones since they aren't in my Reading Lists. Though, personally I guess it's more a convenient gimmick rather than something necessary.


As for the less serious suggestion a less serious opinion, unless we can ensure that the authors are unable to abuse this either I don't agree with it.
I also honestly don't want to see if someone I know rated it anything lower than 5* because I like my 5*s.
The most I can agree with is, if the rating is already public in the Reading Lists. You can kind of just check your Recent Readers if you can find the new rating in someone's Reading List. I've found quite a few ratings that way. And if an author nonetheless abuses it at that point, they should at the very least lose access to this list. Still, I personally prefer it stays anonymous.
Anyway, we talked about that more than enough already. I wholeheartedly agree with the other three suggestions.

I never found a reader stupid enough to rate me 1 star and make their reading list not public. You can only find 5 stars by that method while 1 stars completely slip under the radar.
 

Rinne

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I never found a reader stupid enough to rate me 1 star and make their reading list not public. You can only find 5 stars by that method while 1 stars completely slip under the radar.
Neither did I, that's correct. Though with a sample size of 5 that's not saying a lot. (One was removed or got changed to 4* while I was asleep, not sure. Either way, it disappeared and a 4* appeared in the meantime.)
I did find some of my 2* and 3*s though.

And that's completely okay, imo.
If you force them to be visible to the author, some authors will definitely go and hound those readers. If it becomes known that the authors can see all ratings, then people will be a lot more hesitant to rate low, out of fear of retaliation. Not everyone comes around with good intentions, readers and authors alike. But the author has the higher position and more responsibility, and a rogue author is a lot more damaging to the site as a whole (and to themselves, of course) than a rogue reader.

That's why the system is anonymous in the first place.
You wouldn't want your voting ballot with your name on it to be shown in public, would you? Same thing in green. Well, green and a scale smaller.
But you're free to tell everyone who you voted for. If you are fine with that, go for it. That's why I'd say giving the option to people is okay, but enforcing it is definitely no good.
In a perfect world, we wouldn't even need a rating system because there is no competition. Unfortunately, we don't live in one.
 

Assurbanipal_II

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Neither did I, that's correct. Though with a sample size of 5 that's not saying a lot. (One was removed or got changed to 4* while I was asleep, not sure. Either way, it disappeared and a 4* appeared in the meantime.)
I did find some of my 2* and 3*s though.

And that's completely okay, imo.
If you force them to be visible to the author, some authors will definitely go and hound those readers. If it becomes known that the authors can see all ratings, then people will be a lot more hesitant to rate low, out of fear of retaliation. Not everyone comes around with good intentions, readers and authors alike. But the author has the higher position and more responsibility, and a rogue author is a lot more damaging to the site as a whole (and to themselves, of course) than a rogue reader.

That's why the system is anonymous in the first place.
You wouldn't want your voting ballot with your name on it to be shown in public, would you? Same thing in green. Well, green and a scale smaller.
But you're free to tell everyone who you voted for. If you are fine with that, go for it. That's why I'd say giving the option to people is okay, but enforcing it is definitely no good.
In a perfect world, we wouldn't even need a rating system because there is no competition. Unfortunately, we don't live in one.

That is far from an apt comparison. We are talking here not about political and civil rights, but about ratings on an online site with accounts that don't use clear names and where you can easily block and user or disable your profile to get no messages at all. There are enough countermeasures for readers to fight harassing authors. You are comparing apples and oranges. By the same logic I should be allowed to raise anonymous charges against you before a court, which is of course not the case. Anonymous denunciations are generally not accepted unless in specific cases.

But anyway, scribblehub has a very strong protection for readers, maybe even too strong. What hurts authors the most about the 1 stars is not the rating itself, but the complete absence of a motivation. When you get a bad review, you know the enemy at least. In the case, of a rating you can only accept.
 

Discount_Blade

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Dunno, maybe I'm alone here but if you leave a bad rating and are scared of having it be known you left a bad rating, like a 1 or 2 star rating, then you should probably just avoid rating altogether since you dont possess the miniscule amount of backbone necessary. I dont sympathize with anyone afraid of something like this. Its pitiful. So long story short, if you are afraid of what others will do concerning what you rate, dont rate. It's just silly that this is even a concern.

And whoever it was who compared this to a voting ballot, wut? I admit the concept is sort of the same, but the actual stakes are far removed. Not even close to being in the same ballpark. Not a very apt example. Though I also am not concerned about anyone knowing who I vote for. Idk, I'm thinking I must be in the minority here.

The automatic notification for updates though is an absolutely amazing idea. And also something no other site I've been on has ever done despite how simple a request it seems to me.

If implemented I'm pretty sure scribblehub would be the first to do it, or damn near enough.
 

Rellawing

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It's a writer who suffers most from the system that protects readers absolutely. :sick: Scribblehub will gradually scare its writers away which currently are plentiful, but people leave frequently enough to make it obvious that it happens, nya. :blob_facepalm:

The writer has to work hard for their reputation and to maintain it and what do the readers protect? Nothing, just their right to anonymously vote however suits their mood. :blob_cringe: Any reader who doesn't have ready good reasons for why they rated a story in the way they chose is one who like @Discount_Blade said, someone who shouldn't be rating to start with. (y)

This system would function just fine if everyone received a few less reviews or ratings. :blob_hmm:

Authors have to pony up, face the world with what they write, but how are readers and reviewers held accountable? They aren't currently unless an author finds they can report to protect themselves, and that depends on the whims of any given moderator who reviewed the situation. :blob_frown:
 

binarysoap

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I'm quite surprised at the number of people who want "an option for getting an automatic notification when certain stories are updated and receive a new chapters (sic)". I'm not saying not to implement this because one can always opt not to use it btw. It's just, isn't that what the reading list is for? How is getting an alert much different then checking your reading list, besides the fact that you get a distracting notification? And if you don't check SH that often, you'll just get tons of alerts in an unorganized fashion. And for those irregular released stories, you can always just sort reading list by last updated (or unread), so if it never updates in a year, it'll stay hidden at the bottom of the list. Enlighten me folks, on why you want this.

Removing a rating is great for those who accidentally click on a rating and now is forced is to leave a random rating.

c) seems like a niche thing to ask for, so sure if Tony has time.... which he doesn't. At least any time soon.

As for the less serious note...
googling tells me that you probably mistyped the Latin, and the ratings being public thing has already been talked about so much with no new input that i'm pretty sure tony is aware of the issue and we should stop fruitless discussions.
 

Ace_Arriande

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'm quite surprised at the number of people who want "an option for getting an automatic notification when certain stories are updated and receive a new chapters (sic)". I'm not saying not to implement this because one can always opt not to use it btw. It's just, isn't that what the reading list is for? How is getting an alert much different then checking your reading list, besides the fact that you get a distracting notification? And if you don't check SH that often, you'll just get tons of alerts in an unorganized fashion. And for those irregular released stories, you can always just sort reading list by last updated, so if it never updates in a year, it'll stay hidden at the bottom of the list. Enlighten me folks, on why you want this.

Notifications are always better, imo. It's like... if you go to your email to check your new email, wouldn't you rather the new emails be highlighted or be in a separate list other than randomly tossed in with all the rest? Heck, I had no idea that your story was updated, being the only one that I'm trying to follow, because I was never notified. I was expecting to get a notification letting me know that you posted new chapters. It was only after two weeks that I randomly went to look at it and realized that there were new chapters. I can also confirm that pretty much every single one of my readers who I have ever talked to about this wants notifications for new chapters. Notifications are immediate and they grab attention, and they are sorted by date meaning they are no less unorganized than sorting the reading list like you recommended. Also, when I look at my own reading list, I don't even see any method of sorting it. So if there is a way to sort it, I have no idea how, and I'm confident that other people wouldn't know how if it's not obvious enough to figure out within a couple of seconds. Then there's the fact that notifications are available right from the front page whereas the reading list takes navigating to, and then you would have to sort it which is more extra steps that I don't even know where they exist.

And when it comes to people who are following dozens if not hundreds of different series (I've seen multiple people on RR following over 1k+ series before), getting notified to take you immediately to which story was updated instead of having to look through a list is so much more effective and timesaving. You admitted yourself that notifications are distracting, so that just goes to prove how good they are at grabbing attention.

As for the ratings thing - I keep seeing people say that it was already suggested, but I find "make the names of raters available to authors" much different than previous discussions which usually revolved around limiting ratings or being able to reply to reviews. Personally, I'm all for the idea, but only because I know I'd use it to look at the rater's bias. Whenever I get a new review on Royal Road, for example, I always like to go look at the other reviews the person has left. That lets me know if they're just biased and always hateful (thus worth disregarding the legitimacy of) or if they're actually worth listening to. The same concept can apply to ratings, especially if ratings were public in general and you could see everything that somebody has left a rating on (which I'm also in support of). If authors were to use it to target and harass the people who rated them, though, then that would be a negative thing. This is something that would easily be reportable by the readers, though, to get any authors who attempted it punished.
 

GDLiZy

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Technically if you keep all your rated stories in the reading list then you can see what you rate.

Notification stuff, or at least highlighted update, is a pending feature as Novel Update has that highlight feature.

Remove your rating is pretty helpful stuff.
 

Rinne

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I kind of wrote a huge wall of text, but I agree with binary so I'll keep it away to avoid blowing the thread up again. We have talked about this more than enough and there have been made plenty of arguments about this. And I have written a bunch of arguments that apply to this specific topic as well before. No need to mostly reiterate what I said in another thread already.

If you are interested in continuing the discussion nonetheless, I am always open for doing it on DMs.

Anyway, on topic, I still support the other three suggestions wholeheartedly.
I'm quite surprised at the number of people who want "an option for getting an automatic notification when certain stories are updated and receive a new chapters (sic)". I'm not saying not to implement this because one can always opt not to use it btw. It's just, isn't that what the reading list is for? How is getting an alert much different then checking your reading list, besides the fact that you get a distracting notification? And if you don't check SH that often, you'll just get tons of alerts in an unorganized fashion. And for those irregular released stories, you can always just sort reading list by last updated (or unread), so if it never updates in a year, it'll stay hidden at the bottom of the list. Enlighten me folks, on why you want this.

The problem is more that going through reading lists every time is frigging bothersome. Sure, it's totally doable, but it already annoys me on NU. I have 3-digits of stories there and checking every single story is simply a chore. I sorted them already in multiple lists based on priority so I only check the smaller list every day and the larger lists maybe once a week. Having a notification would allow me to simply see a short list of updates and pick the ones I'm interested in.
Long story short: It's less of a bother.

I remember a thread from a game dev talking about rewards and how bothersome it is to get there. It had some specific name but it's been a while since I read it. Simply put, a single additional button can make players feel annoyed enough not to play. It's kind of extreme, but the more repetitive the action and the more often you have to do it, the less bothersome it should be, or people will get annoyed at it. Some faster than others.
 

Assurbanipal_II

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As for the ratings thing - I keep seeing people say that it was already suggested, but I find "make the names of raters available to authors" much different than previous discussions which usually revolved around limiting ratings or being able to reply to reviews. Personally, I'm all for the idea, but only because I know I'd use it to look at the rater's bias. Whenever I get a new review on Royal Road, for example, I always like to go look at the other reviews the person has left. That lets me know if they're just biased and always hateful (thus worth disregarding the legitimacy of) or if they're actually worth listening to. The same concept can apply to ratings, especially if ratings were public in general and you could see everything that somebody has left a rating on (which I'm also in support of). If authors were to use it to target and harass the people who rated them, though, then that would be a negative thing. This is something that would easily be reportable by the readers, though, to get any authors who attempted it punished.

:blob_evil_two: Finally, I would be able to spy on my enemies. If they have only 5 star smut stories and Litrps, then I know what was the cause behind the rating.
 
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BenJepheneT

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I'm quite surprised at the number of people who want "an option for getting an automatic notification when certain stories are updated and receive a new chapters (sic)". I'm not saying not to implement this because one can always opt not to use it btw. It's just, isn't that what the reading list is for?
It makes things easier. That's it.
 

AkalE

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Looks all valid, apart from the making rating public thing. I don't want anyone looking through my reading list or, god forbid, send me a DM just because I rated their story!
Even if SH is all pseudo-names, it won't be nice experience for authors demanding explanations for a rating. Personally if I invest enough to leave a review, I won't mind the author contacting me.

Authors have chosen to make their work a matter of public domain and for that they are rewarded with readership and if lucky monetization. They should expect a little criticism or haters.
Readers rate or review because they read a story. Not for any other benefits.
Now, I'm afraid making things transparent would make readers from rating itself or at best rate anything other than a 5*... Afterall who would want the hassle just for reading a story.


P.S. The other suggestions sound great

PPS: My Latin is a little weak @Assurbanipal_II . :blobspearpeek: Speak in English
 

BenJepheneT

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As for the ratings thing - I keep seeing people say that it was already suggested, but I find "make the names of raters available to authors" much different than previous discussions which usually revolved around limiting ratings or being able to reply to reviews. Personally, I'm all for the idea, but only because I know I'd use it to look at the rater's bias. Whenever I get a new review on Royal Road, for example, I always like to go look at the other reviews the person has left. That lets me know if they're just biased and always hateful (thus worth disregarding the legitimacy of) or if they're actually worth listening to. The same concept can apply to ratings, especially if ratings were public in general and you could see everything that somebody has left a rating on (which I'm also in support of). If authors were to use it to target and harass the people who rated them, though, then that would be a negative thing. This is something that would easily be reportable by the readers, though, to get any authors who attempted it punished.
This is basically where the whole thing hinges on. This is less about accessibility and more about the reaction this community would give. Say Tony made a giant fucking wager and implemented the system. If no major freak-out happens, the system stays. If a witch hunt is gathered at some point in the future, the system has to go.

It's a big fucken bet to play. So far I haven't seen anyone with the potential nor capacity to actually stake out for one stars. The most I think someone would do is either take it on the DMs, directly confront them in their own account or offhandedly refer to them in a passive aggressive way in the forums while quoting Latin.

So it's down to this; no one knows for sure how civilized we Scribblers are until all bets are on the table. If you really want this feature to be implemented successfully, beg from @Tony and don't chimp out when you finally found that 1* fiend.
 
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