Explain how spells can get fused via magic channels?

LilTV1155

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I been puzzled about something.

How do you explain the fusion of 2 different elements into 1 powerful spell despite the elements potentially countering each other in the process like Fire and Water types through magic channels?



What about 2 different debuff spells from 1 elemental source like Darkness?
I heard from one sources involving D&D, Diable and etc.that curses and blessings or debuffs and buffs can't stack, but override the other active buff/debuff. Or they can only stack when casted from different sources and power types? Then I also heard that when the new curse is stronger than the 1st curse, it can work as a countercurse by restraining the 1st curse or nuetralize it. Like you are cursed to die, then get cursed with immortality making the person neither dead nor alive. Then I also heard in some cases, certain spells of different attributes can be fused into 1 stronger spell.



Do we need a specific formula, specific mana ratio, and wavelengths adjustments or something beside Mana/magic?
 

Cipiteca396

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Depends on your world- and the mechanics of the world.

Buffs and debuffs overriding eachother is a balance mechanic for games. It's there to stop people abusing the system to get unfair results. Not necessary in a book or whatever.

On the other hand, how different kinds of mana interact depends on how stable mana is. Or how much effort you put into stabilizing it. Maybe it explodes if you mix it normally, maybe it creates a healing spell if you're careful. Maybe it can't mix at all, or maybe it naturally mixes together and you have to pull it apart manually to do any sort of spell work.

As to the specifics... It's fine to discuss them, but not necessary.
 

melchi

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Just use your imagination.

Though if you are talking D&D then spell lacing is a prestige option. Say your character is a mage / water master then when they cast magic missile each of the missiles can be laced with the damage from magic missile with an additional water damage because of the water mastery.

The whole buffs not stacking and only picking the strongest one is a balance issue. Suppose someone had a +1 ring of protection, then a +1 helm also some +1 boots and a +1 belt.

That is cheaper than a set of +4 armor but mechanically the same.

It is the same with buffs, say a character has +2 natural armor for their race. Then they cast barkskin and that boosts it to +4.

The same could be done with attributes: +1 gauntlets of strength and 4 other strength boosting items, then top it off with 3 spells that boost strength. It gets broken after a while.
 
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Saine

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You can make the magic system as complex or obfuscated as you like. As long as you remain consistent in how you present it and never break the rules you lay out unless you have a really good reason, you'll be fine explaining it however you like. In series like Full Metal Alchemist, the magic system is really good because there's pretty obvious constraints and everyone who uses alchemy in that system has to come up with creative ways for their abilities to work. The downside of a system like that is that you kind of have to come up with creative ways for people to do things which can be complicated and use up your time. It's really your choice as a writer to decide how much you like doing that.

As for fusion of different elements and the like, you could have them 'react' in a way that makes sense to you. Fire and Water could combine into steam, become super-heated water, liquid fire, lava, or however many other combinations you can think of. This kind of thing has been done in many different ways so it's really up to you.

In regard to stacking buffs/debuffs, this is a video game design decision more than a literary one. The reason games like that don't let you stack buffs or debuffs is because it lets designers make buffs more individually powerful rather than having to design them around stacking. However, just because this makes sense in game design, doesn't mean you have to do the same in your magic system. Even if your story is based on a video-game style lit-rpg, the game itself doesn't need to be properly balanced or the main character can break the rules in some way as long as you justify it in the plot. There's no real reason even in games for abilities not to give multiple buffs/debuffs as long as it doesn't make everything more confusing to do it that way for no reason.
 

NotaNuffian

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Through the power of internet university and the power of BSing your way through.

Such is the way of life.

Here, as a proof:
1. Why does two opposing elements make the biggest bang? Two theories: One, when they cancel out each other, they don't fizz out into nothing, instead they release the primordial energy/ dark matter that lies within them and that shit bangs. Two, it's the yin-yang synergy that cause them to grow with one another until the balance is broken and BANG! A more powerful spell.

2. Why is darkness all the debuffs? Cuz black is evil dark is unknown and potentially harmful to us, the children of light.
 

TheEldritchGod

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Well, if you are dealing with psionics:

PSIONIC ENERGY ADMIXTURE [METAPSIONIC]

- DRAGON #287 (3.0)

You can modify a power that uses one type of energy to mix in an equal amount of another type of energy.

Power Point Cost: +8

Prerequisite: Psionic Energy Substitution (one other), one other metapsionic feat, 5 ranks in Knowledge (psionics).

Benefit: Choose one type of energy: acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic for which you already have selected for the Psionic Energy Substitution feat. You can modify a power with an energy designator to add an equal amount of the chosen type of energy. The altered power works normally in all respects except for the type of damage dealt. For instance, a sonic admixtured firefall would deal 5d4 points of sonic damage and 5d4 points of fire damage. Even opposed types of energy, such as fire and cold, can be combined using this feat.

Special: You can gain this feat multiple times, choosing a different type of energy each time. You can use Psionic Energy Admixture to further alter a power that has already been modified with Psionic Energy Substitution. You can also use Psionic Energy Admixture to include your chosen energy type with a power that already uses the same type, in effect doubling the damage dice.

Recommended Powers: Energy [Arc, Ball, Bolt, Burst, Claw, Cone, Conversion, Current, Emanation, Flash, Lance, Missile, Push, Ray, Retort, Stun, Trap, Wall, Wave]

Editor (Does it need psionic focus?): Yes. It might be a 3.0 feat, but you have to use 3.5 metapsionic rules, and all metapsionics require a psionic focus to use.

Editor (WARNING: 3.0 Feat): Twin is a +6 and works on everything. This is +8 and only works on energy attacks. It sucks ass.

What you are talking about doesn't exist as a metamagic feat.

However, I think what you are referring to with the combining of curses and other effects involves:

BLACK LORE OF MOIL [METAMAGIC]

- COMPLETE ARCANE (3.5)

Your study of the sinister knowledge and spellcasting techniques of the long-dead Nightlords of Moil makes your necromancy spells especially potent.

Spell Level: +0

Prerequisite: Spell Focus (necromancy), caster level 7th.

Benefit: Any necromancy spell you cast can be cast instead as a Moilian spell, dealing an extra 1d6 points of negative energy damage +1d6 per two spell levels (+1d6 for 1st-level spells, +2d6 for 2nd- or 3rd-level spells, and so on). If the spell normally allows a saving throw, the target takes half the negative energy damage on a successful save, regardless of the outcome of the save on the spell’s normal effect.

In addition to its normal spell components, a Moilian spell requires the creation and expenditure of a Moilian runebone—a small human bone (often a finger bone) scribed with carefully prepared arcane markings. Only a character trained in the Black Lore of Moil knows the secrets of creating a runebone, which takes 1 hour to craft and requires special inks and powders costing 25 gp per die of negative energy damage to be generated.

Example: A runebone capable of adding 3d6 points of negative energy damage to a spell costs 75 gp to craft. While the maximum negative energy damage dealt by a Moilian spell is based on the spell’s level, the actual damage is limited by the runebone.

Example: If a sorcerer casts Finger of Death (a 7th-level spell, so normally +4d6) with a 75-gp (3d6) runebone, the spell deals only 3d6 points of additional negative energy damage.

Example: If you add this to Vampiric Touch, the way the spell reads you gain temporary hit points equal to the damage inflicted, and this spell adds 1d6 per level. So, a 5th level caster can normally drain 2d6 or can spend 75 gp to drain 5d6.

Editor: This feat can only be applied to necromancy. At first glance, it looks like a good deal, if you want to play a necromancer. It can give you extra damage, but doesn't add to the level of the spell. The major disadvantage of this feat is that it is most effective with necromancy spells that cause damage. If you combine this feat with a curse or a drain, it's nice to have additional damage, but you are splitting your attention. To take down a target, you want to focus your damage on the target using the same type of attack for maximum effect. There is one sweet spot, however, Vampiric Touch (see example).

This feat also opens up a whole new world of possibilities because there are a number of other metamagic feats (any Fell feat, for example) that are only usable with spells that do damage.

And finally, there comes a point in any career where you just need to do just a little more damage and cost is no object. When you reach mid to high levels, this feat really comes into it’s own. This feat is a must for any necromancer, middling use to anyone else.

Recommended Spells: Vampiric Touch

Why does this make necromancy so powerful? Because you can add damage to spells that do no damage, and by adding damage, you can now add a whole SLEW of new metamagic feats that require you to do at least a point of damage to add to a spell.

Here. An example of it broken down for vampiric touch.

VAMPIRIC TOUCH

- PLAYER’S HANDBOOK (3.0)

- PLAYER’S HANDBOOK 1 (3.5)

Necromancy

Level: Blighter 3, Bone Collector (3.0) 3, Corrupt Avenger 2, Deadgrim 3, Dread Necromancer 3, Duskblade 3, Envy Domain 4, Gluttony Domain 4, Hexblade 3, Initiate of Falazure 3, Maho-Tsukai (3.0) 3, Necromancer Domain 3, Necromancy Wizard Domain 3, Sorcerer/Wizard 3, Spite Domain 3, Telflammar Shadowlord 2

Components: V, S

Casting Time: 1 standard action

Range: Touch

Target: Living creature touched

Duration: Instantaneous/1 hour; see text

Saving Throw: None

Spell Resistance: Yes

You must succeed on a melee touch attack. Your touch deals 1d6 points of damage per two caster levels (maximum 10d6). You gain temporary hit points equal to the damage you deal. However, you can’t gain more than the subject’s current hit points +10, which is enough to kill the subject. The temporary hit points disappear 1 hour later.

Alternate Material Component: Specially prepared vampire’s fang [Maximized] (2,550 gp)

Editor (Blaster/Buff): You touch your enemy, they hurt, you get hit points. By itself, not the best spell. Channeled through a weapon, it starts to look better. As it reads, if you add this to another attack, you get the hit points from that weapon as well. That means Black lore of moil adds damage that you get hit points from. Sneak attack also gives you hit points. Also, it has a single target on the target line. That means you can reach/chain this spell. In an off itself, the spell isn’t that impressive because the slow damage progression. Combined with metamagic feats, it can get disgusting. Oh, and don’t forget Spectral Hand. Even if you don’t have reach spell, spectral hand allows you to make touch attacks at range.

Metamagic

Black Lore of Moil: YES! YES! YES! Pile it on!

Reach/Chain: A Total +5 level adjustment. You could potentially do upwards of 500 hit points of damage to a crowd of commoners and become a punching bag, laughing at the town guard as they try to poke you to death with their pig stickers.

Empower: Empower doesn’t lend itself well to low damage spells, but every little bit counts when you start stacking the multipliers.

Enervate: Keep piling it on.

Extend: If for some reason you need the hit points to last two hours, then you need this feet. Not sure why you would need it for that long, but it is an option.

Fell Animate: It certainly would look cool, but, alas, you are unlikely to kill someone in one shot with this spell. In fact, you most likely want to aim for the healthiest target, so you get the maximum amount of temporary hit points.

Fell Drain: I like this feet, but for a +2 adjustment, there are better metamagic feats. Ah, if you only gained that drained level…

Maximize: Expensive as all heck, but you get what you pay for. It’d be far better in a rod, mind you.

Smiting: A way to get around the range limitation is to put this in a smiting spell, then cast it on an arrow you hand off to the archer. The archer does extra damage and you get the hit points.

Scrolls

Vampiric Touch (SL3/CL5): 375 gp

HP Damage: 2d6 = Avg 7 (53.57 gp/hp)

Vampiric Touch (SL3/CL6): 450 gp

HP Damage: 3d6 = Avg 10.5 (42.86 gp/hp)

Vampiric Touch (SL3/CL8): 600 gp

HP Damage: 4d6 = Avg 14 (42.86 gp/hp)

Vampiric Touch (SL3/CL10): 750 gp

HP Damage: 5d6 = Avg 17.5 (42.86 gp/hp)

Vampiric Touch (SL3/CL12): 900 gp

HP Damage: 6d6 = Avg 21 (42.86 gp/hp)

Vampiric Touch (SL3/CL14): 1050 gp

HP Damage: 7d6 = Avg 24.5 (42.86 gp/hp)

Vampiric Touch (SL3/CL16): 1200 gp

HP Damage: 8d6 = Avg 28 (42.86 gp/hp)

Vampiric Touch (SL3/CL18): 1350 gp

HP Damage: 9d6 = Avg 31.5 (42.86 gp/hp)

Vampiric Touch (SL3/CL20): 1500 gp

HP Damage: 10d6 = Avg 35 (42.86 gp/hp)

Vampiric Touch Reach/Chain (SL8/CL16): 3250 gp

HP Damage: 8d6 + 2d6 = Avg 35 hp (92.85 gp/hp)

Targets: 16 (5.80 gp/hp)

And here we see the reason why reach chain and vampiric touch is so scary. A potential for 560 temp hit points for an hour. You can become the punching bag, as long as you are willing to suck the life out of a crowd of people.

Vampiric Touch BLoM/Heighten+1/Reach/Chain (SL9/CL20): 4575 gp

HP Damage: 10d6 + 3d6 = Avg 45.5 hp (100.55 gp/hp)

Targets: 20 (5.03 gp/hp)

And this is the ultimate in temp hit point gathering. On average, you could harvest 910 hit points. Then you could walk through a hail of arrows, jump off a cliff and celebrate by drinking lava.

Vampiric Touch BLoM/Empower (SL5/CL10): 1300 gp

HP Damage: 5d6 + 2d6 x 1.5 = Avg 36.25 hp (35.86 gp/hp)

Not the most cost effective way to cause damage, but the temp hit points will help you to weather the blows you are about to take from touching someone.

Vampiric Touch BLoM/Empower/Enervate (SL7/CL14): 2500 gp

HP Damage: 7d6 + 2d6 x 2 = Avg 47 hp (53.19 gp/hp)

While adding enervate does add quite a bit of damage, the additional cost makes it seem less then impressive.

Vampiric Touch BLoM/Empower/Maximize (SL8/CL16): 3250 gp

HP Damage: 60 hp (54.17 gp/hp)

This combo will net you a hefty amount of hit points. Still, for 8th level, there are far more impressive spells. The range/chain version springs to mind.

Vampiric Touch BLoM/Empower/Reach/Split Ray (SL9/CL20): 4550 gp

HP Damage: 10d6 + 2d6 x 1.5 x 2 = Avg 125.25 hp (36.33 gp/hp)

If your DM does not allow reach/chain combos, then this combo is the best you are going to get. You can drain from on target or two, depending on the strength of your enemies.

Wands

Vampiric Touch (SL3/CL5): 11250 gp

HP Damage: 2d6 = Avg 7 hp (32.14 gp/hp)

Vampiric Touch (SL3/CL6): 13500 gp

HP Damage: 3d6 = Avg 10.5 hp (25.71 gp/hp)

Vampiric Touch (SL3/CL20): 45000 gp

HP Damage: 3d6 = Avg 35 hp (25.71 gp/hp)

I’m just not seeing any other versions of this wand in the basic model. The 3d6 version is the most likely.

Vampiric Touch BLoM/Heighten+1 (SL4/CL8): 27750 gp

HP Damage: 4d6 + 3d6 = Avg 24.5 hp (22.63 gp/hp)

Heighten the spell so you can get one more +1d6 of BLoM and there ya go.

Vampiric Touch BLoM/Heighten+1 (SL4/CL20): 63750 gp

HP Damage: 10d6 + 3d6 = Avg 45.5 hp (28.02 gp/hp)

Heighten the spell for one more +1d6, max the level and you have your BOOM stick!

Vampiric Touch [Telflammar Shadowlord] (SL2/CL4): 6000 gp

HP Damage: 2d6 = Avg 7 hp (17.14 gp/hp)

Only available from a Telflammar Shadowlord or a corrupt avenger, it is lowest level version of the spell in a wand.

Vampiric Touch [Telflammar Shadowlord] BLoM (SL2/CL4): 8500 gp

HP Damage: 2d6 +2d6 = Avg 14 hp (12.14 gp/hp)

Only available from a Telflammar Shadowlord or a corrupt avenger, it is the most cost effective wand you can buy.

Vampiric Touch [Telflammar Shadowlord] Reach (SL4/CL8): 30000 gp

HP Damage: 4d6 = Avg 14 hp (42.86 gp/hp)

Only available from a Telflammar Shadowlord or a corrupt avenger, this wand has reach on it, making it much more useful for a wizard.

Vampiric Touch [Telflammar Shadowlord BLoM/Reach (SL4/CL8): 32500 gp

HP Damage: 4d6 + 2d6 = Avg 21 hp (30.95 gp/hp)

Very expensive, but possibly the best you can fit in a wand. Again, only available from a Telflammar Shadowlord or a corrupt avenger.

And finally, a break down of Bestow Curse

BESTOW CURSE

- PLAYER’S HANDBOOK (3.0)

- PLAYER’S HANDBOOK 1 (3.5)

Necromancy

Level: Adept 3, Bone Knight 3, Cleric 3, Corrupt Avenger 3, Court Herald 3, Demonologist (3.0) 2, Destiny Domain 4, Dragon Below Domain 3, Fate Domain 3, Fiend of Blasphemy (3.0) 3, Hatred Domain 3, Justiciar of Taiia (3.0) 3, Maho-Tsukai (3.0) 3, Paladin of Tyranny 3, Shaman 3, Sorcerer/Wizard 4, Suffering Domain 3, Urban Adept 3

Components: V, S

Casting Time: 1 standard action

Range: Touch

Target: Creature touched

Duration: Permanent

Saving Throw: Will negates

Spell Resistance: Yes

You place a curse on the subject. Choose one of the following three effects.

• –6 decrease to an ability score (minimum 1).

• –4 penalty on attack rolls, saves, ability checks, and skill checks.

• Each turn, the target has a 50% chance to act normally; otherwise, it takes no action.

You may also invent your own curse, but it should be no more powerful than those described above, and the DM has final say on the curse’s effect. The curse bestowed by this spell cannot be dispelled, but it can be removed with a break enchantment, limited wish, miracle, remove curse, or wish spell. Bestow curse counters remove curse.

Alternate Material Component: Eye of firenewt [Heightened +1] (720 gp)

Editor (Lactantius-Contributor): A versatile spell since you can apply it in combat and anywhere else. The open ended clause regarding "more curses" makes it more powerful. Im combat, we have - again - the question if it is worth to debuff. Conclusion:This spell seems solid since the curse options are versatile. reducing saves can be good if you follow up with Save-or-Dies, 50% wasted actions is very good, too. One thing to remember is the permanent effect: like Blindness, you can apply the spell in non-combat-situations or just prior to the fight. The enemy must get remove curse, break enchantment or even better stuff to get rid of the effect. Plus, this spell is a good candidate for our spectral hand.

Editor (Save-or-Suck): CURSE! the very mention of the name should bring fear and terror into the hearts of all PCs. Smart DMs don't use them very often. They're a bad feeling's spell that doesn't completely take down a player, but often renders him helpless, sometime useless. Nothing sucks more then spending hours watching other people play while you role-play incapacitation. If the party doesn't have access to remove curse, the player might wind up sitting around with nothing to do while he ineffectually flails about taking an action every other round. A -6 to the wrong stat and someone can't figure out how to put his armor on in the morning. But what really should make someone scared is that "you may also invent your own curse" part of the text. DM's have a funny way of judging what is "more powerful". This often means, "You as a player can't do jack with this spell." where as, "The DM can turn you into a pineapple." That said, I recommend some of my own experience with this spell. Specifically, using Bestow Curse as a conditional capstone for another spell. For example, I polymorph you into a horrible creature. I cast Bestow Curse on you, "You shall remain this mockery of life until such time as you find true love." If you are going to use curse that way, it's important to have some sort of 'out' for the PCs. You've seen Beauty and the Beast. Nuff said. Oh, yeah, everything below needs DM approval.

Alternate Curses (3.0)

• Target is rendered sterile.

• The next person introduced to the target for the first time will hate him or her uncontrollably forever. Even if this curse is removed, the person still hates the victim of the curse, but the victim can improve the person’s attitude normally after the curse is gone. EDITOR: I got a problem with this one, I think the curse should affect the target, not self-aware people around him. That is the providence of Greater Bestow Curse.

• Each time the target attempts to help a friend or ally, there is a 50% chance the attempt fails and causes the ally to fail at the task.

• Target is struck blind and deaf. EDITOR: I have a problem with this one. It imitates another spell (Blindness/Deafness) making that spell pointless. True, B/D is second level for wizards, but it's third for clerics. For that reason, I would not allow this curse.

• Each round in combat, there is a 25% chance that the target will attack the nearest creature rather than choosing an opponent normally.

• Every time the victim makes a d20 roll, a roll of 20 counts as a 1.

• The victim effectively ages, moving him or her to the beginning of the next age category. EDITOR: Per aging, the afflicted is treated as becoming frail and weak. They advance one age category in appearance, receiving any physical penalties appropriate to the new age category, without any of the benefits. This age persists until the curse is broken. Venerable characters are not penalized by this form of curse, and afflicted characters can not be aged to death. The target does not actually get any older, and will still live as long as it normally would.

• At some point within the next week (or whenever it is feasible), thieves are able to steal all monetary wealth the victim has. EDITOR: Again, I object to the spell affecting someone other then the target. I think this should be under greater curse.

• Animals refuse to be within 5 feet of the target and do not respond to the target’s commands or requests. EDITOR: Mindless animals with int of 2 or less.

• Each time the target meets someone for the first time, there is a 50% chance that the new person will confuse the target with a hated enemy, a well-known criminal, or a raving lunatic. EDITOR: Again I object to the spell affecting someone else other then the target.

• All creatures of a specific kind (such as orcs, owlbears, or black dragons) are permanently invisible to the sight of the victim (invisibility purge does not help, but see invisibility and true seeing do). The spellcaster chooses the kind of creature.

Alternate Curses (Dragon Magazine)

• Target takes -8 penalty on all checks made using one skill, such as Climb or Spellcraft.

• The target's Str score counts as 10 less (minimum 1) for the purposes of carrrying capacity. This might cause some individuals to suddenly take encumbrance penalties while others collapse under the weight of their own gear.

• The target's armor falls into disrepair, halving its hit points and hardness while decreasing the armor bonus it grants by -4 (minimum of 1) and doubling the armor check penalty. This effect shifts to any new armor donned, while the armor removed returns to normal (although any damage it might have taken remains)

• The target must carry something designated by the caster or suffer a -5 penalty on all saves. The item can be vague (such as a holy symbol of Vecna) or specific (such as the Helm of King Aramil), but it cannot be something dangerous or deadly for the target to carry (a massive boulder or burning coals). The caster must give the object when casting the spell.

• One of the target's limbs ceases to function. A nonfunctional arm cannot hold or wield any item and cannot be used to perform somatic spell components, while a nonfunctional leg prevents the target from walking properly without a crutch (and even then the target can only move at half speed). A nonfunctional wing prevents the target from flying if it uses wings to fly. EDITOR: Alternate possibility, the target loses use of their right limb during daylight hours, and their left limb when the sun is down. Same effect, cosmetic differences.

• The target loses all weapon and armor proficiencies, other than simple weapons, natural weapons, and unarmored strikes. If the target has feats for which the lost proficiencies are prerequisites (such as Weapon Focus), he loses the use of these as well.

• The target becomes completely socially inept. He takes -6 penalties on Bluff, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Intimidate, and Sense Motive Checks, on Cha checks to influence someone, and on Disguise checks when attempting to act as someone else.

• The target's armor, shield, or one of his weapons (caster's choice) becomes cursed. Its enhancement bonus is reversed and it loses any other special abilities, so a +4 flaming longsword becomes a -4 longsword. If nonmagical, the weapon, shield, or armor instead becomes a -1 weapon, shield or armor.

• The target is stricken with cowardice. Each time the character rolls for initiative, he must immediately make a will save (with the same DC as the curse) or become shaken for the duration of the combat. The first time the character takes damage in the combat, he must save again or become shaken for 1d4 rounds (if already shaken, instead treat as panicked for 1d4 rounds)

• The target appears to be a different alignment (caster's choice) for the purpose of divination spells and spell-like abilities such as detect evil.

• The target's damage reduction, spell resistance, or elemental resistance of one type is reduced by 5, to a minimum of 0.

• The target immediately becomes fatigued until he has consumed 1 pint of blood. Thereafter, he gains a thirst for blood and normal food and drink no longer nourish him. He awakens fatigued each morning and must drink 1 pint of blood to stave off this fatigue for the day.

• Everyone who knows the target no longer recognizes him, except for the caster. Even the target's allies do not recognize him and those who come to know him again forget knowing him each morning.

• The target gains a susceptibility to damage from a certain source (caster's choice). All damage taken from this source is increased by 5 points. The source must be either a specific element, such as fire, or weapons made of a specified uncommon material such as mithral, silver, or bone.

• The target loses the ability to heal naturally (although he does not lose innate healing abilities such as fast healing or regeneration). In addition, spells of the conjuration (healing) subschool only heal the target for half as much as normal. Such spells that cause damage are unaffected by this curse. For example, a cure light wounds spell cast upon a undead creature is unaffected, while an inflict light wounds spell cast on the same creature would be halved.

• The target's sight is reduced to 20ft, even with natural abilities and spells such as darkvision.

• The target must roll a Fort save (DC as curse) each time he commits an evil or illegal act to avoid becoming nauseated for 2d4 rounds. Alternatively, the caster may use this curse to affect those commiting acts of kindness and generosity.

• The target loses the use of one of his feats. If this feat is a prerequisite for other feats, the target loses the use of those feats as well.

• One of the target's minor racial abilities is disabled. Minor abilities include darkvision, low-light vision, racial save bonuses, racial skill bonuses, racial weapon proficiency or familiarity, or stability. The DM has the final word as to what other racial abilities qualify as minor.

• The target immediately becomes fatigued, and henceforth requires 12 hours of sleep each time he rests or else is fatigued for the remainder of the day.

• The target becomes a disease carrier. Anyone the target touches or who touches the target must roll a DC 16 Fort save or else contract blinding sickness or cackle fever. The target is immune to the selected disease.

• The target has uncontrollable shakes, imposing a -4 penalty on ranged attacks and 20% spell failure chance for spells with somatic components.

• The target becomes unable to tell a lie. He may, however, choose to avoid answering a question in order to avoid telling the truth.

• The target fear killing and must attempt to deal nonlethal damage whenever possible, taking a penalty of -4 on attack rolls with most weapons to do so.

Alternate Curses (Player Suggested)

• On a 1 on any die roll, you fail no matter what, and if the action causes harm, you suffer it. (You can fail saving throws, even if you have 20+ over what you need to roll. If you roll a 1 to hit, you hit yourself and take damage.)

• Animal and semi natural beasts have their attitudes to the character dropped 2 steps [usually indifferent to hostile]

• Wounds cut deeper [+1d6 damage suffered per hit]

• Gain enough pounds in fat to be at heavy load.

• Lose 1 point of STR or CON a day as victim becomes "Thinner" (You never go below 3.)

• All sentient beings have their attitude worsened 1 step in regards to the accursed character and all who associate with that character.

• Fear of a type of object, person, place, or environmental condition, (Fear of open spaces. Fear of Moonlight. Fear of cats.) but it can be specific. (Fear of me. Fear of your mother.)

• Cause Obsession with a type of object, person, place, or environmental condition, but it can be specific.

• Reduce SR by 6.

• Reduce One save, and one save only, by -6

• -5 to BAB, thus losing an extra attack. If you go negative, you can still attack.

• Food spoils in your presence. You cannot carry food and must eat very quickly. All food you carry becomes inedible within 24 hours. All food you touch becomes stale and flavorless.

• Items in your possession decay, losing 1 hp per day. Paper ages and cracks, metals become pitted and rusted, leather and cloth dry rot.

• You cannot sleep. Period. After a few days awake you collapse from exhaustion, but even then it's not restful. You're always fatigued after the first day or two and you can forget about recovering spells.

• Holy symbols, holy water, and consecrated ground cause you great pain. You cannot touch holy symbols or holy water willingly. You cannot enter holy ground. If forced into contact, you take 1d4 hp of damage a round.

• You develop horribly bad luck. Once or twice a session the DM can just declare a roll you've just made to be a fumble. Particularly if it's for something important.

• You occasionally see things that aren't true. false visions of future events. You're certain that a particular woman you see is going to get hit by a runaway cart when she goes to the florist later. You KNOW it. You've SEEN it happen. The visions continue to be false, little more than an annoying distraction.

• You eat magic. Beneficial spells with a duration longer than one round that affect you lapse at the start of your next turn.

• Subject is prone to fits of anti-social rage. There is a 25% chance that the target will fly into a rage whenever they come into contact with people. The enraged target can not perform any social interactions, including any CHA based skill check. There is a 10% chance that a character afflicted by rage will become violent.

• Target has a 50% chance to have any attack against a specific set of targets fail.

• May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your armpits. You become covered with lice and other vermin as such you take a -2 to dexterity and charisma from the bugs and scratching.

• May your beloved dwarven beard fall out, irreplacably, in slow agonizing tangles ... along with every other hair on your body. Nuff said.

• Curse someone who has lied to you to suffer an uncontrollable sneezing fit (nauseated 1 round) whenever they attempt to lie.

• Curse someone that you have physically wounded so that the last wound that you gave them will not heal naturally, and will resist magical curing. If you ever wound this person again, the curse ends.

• Curse someone to require three times as much food or five times as much water

• Curse a miser with excessive generosity, requiring a Will save to avoid charitible contributions to beggars, and to resist 'tipping' 50% more for any good or service, or accepting only 50% value for items sold.

• Curse someone to suffer the visible effects of a feared contagious disease, but not to actually have said disease. Whatever ability damage would normally be suffered is instead applied as a one-time ability penalty, and the visible symptoms remain in effect until the curse is removed, possibly leading to a lot of coin being wasted on remove disease spells, and a lot of NPCs shunning and avoiding the 'plague-bearer.'

• Curse someone with a -10 to Wisdom, Intelligence, or Charisma, but only for the purposes of determining the maximum level of spell the person may cast. (Someone with a 29 int would be unaffected. Someone with a 25 would only be able to cast 5th level spells.)

• Unable to drink any form of alcohol. It will not pass his lips. No other effect

• Only able to move about by dancing. -10 feet of movement.

• Can only talk by singing. -20% fail chance on all spellcasting that requires a verbal components.

• Target wets himself whenever he uses rage. No other effect.

• Target must use any magic item he touches the first time he touches it. Any previous times he has used a magic item prior to being cursed do not count. (Pick up a scroll, you must try to read it, including roll UMD. Pick up a magic sword, you must try and hit something with it, at least once. Target not required to try any magic item he is not aware of being a magic item.

• Target must make a UMD on EVERY magic item as if he was not the right class for the device.

• Target must make a DC 10 Balance or fall over every time you move more then a five foot step.

• Target suffers 50% spell failure.

• Target is considered wearing heavy armor at all times. This is worst on monks, barbarians, and rangers, and other classes that require target to be wearing light or no armor.

• The target sparkles like under the effects of Glitterdust, except they aren't blinded.

• Target changes color. Paisley Plaid could be fun.

• Target gets stuck to wood. Must make a strength check to pull away from any wood you come in contact with, even through clothing. (DC equal to saving throw of the original curse.)A strength check to move across a wooden floor. A strength check to stand up from a chair. A strength check to drop a torch. A one always fails.

• Target plane shifts to the Ethereal plane and is utter helpless and unable to act for one round whenever he rolls a 1 on any attack roll. Next round he returns and is able to act normally on his action. Same thing can happen whenever he sneezes. DM determines if/when he sneezes. It is never when it would be useful.

• Is cursed with Lycanthropy, except that he never changes forms. He acts like a werewolf, strips naked, and tries to attack people like a mindless CE monster, but gains no powers, attributes, or immunities. No one will become infected if they are bit by the target. It ends as soon as the curse is lifted. Target will react poorly to wolvesbane and silver, but there are no ill effects from exposure.

• Whenever he kills anyone, he gains a new facial feature or other distinctive mark of the one he killed permanently on his body. Slowly, over time, the killer's charisma drops as he becomes an amalgamation of various types of races. He never changes gender, but he could acquire breasts, or just one breast. Target's Charisma drops by 1 every ten kills until it reaches 1.

• -8 to saves versus a specific school or subschool of magic.

• Target has a sneezing fit when he speaks longer then a standard action. target is unable to cast any spells with a casting time of a full round or greater.

• Toilet paper bursts into flames whenever he touches it or it touches his skin.

• And finally, as suggested by the wife, The Player Is Away From Game Curse (™). This curse happens when a player does not show up for a game session. His PC becomes affected by a curse that turns him into a small figurine that you can carry in your pocket. The curse is lifted next week, if he shows up.

Metamagic

Black Lore of Moil: This feet is incredibly useful when combined with Bestow Curse. The addition of damage to this non-damaging spell opens up a whole new world of feats that otherwise would not be available. Fortunately, you don't even need to add a lot of damage, although you might want to anyways. Again if your necromancer, the black lore of moil shows it's worth.

Fell Animate: Normally I would only recommend using this feat with a low flow damage spell on the helpless victim. However there is an idea that you might be able to push past a flexible DM. It involves adding as much BLoM damage as possible so you'd want to cast this as a wizard at 4th level. You can invent your own curse, so when you add fell animate, you can make it so that if the target fails his will save, he turns into a zombie matter what. If the damage did not kill him, he can be restored to life with a remove curse. Personally, I wouldn't even require the extra damage as a DM. However, your mileage may vary. As for rules on this, I'd simply make him a zombie without access to anything except for hit points of the original. This would be more of a NPC spell then a PC one. It adds a whole new dimension when the hoards of expendable zombies turn out to still be alive, they just need a remove curse to return to the living. Or, far worse, the spell doesn't kick in until you die, then you rise up as an undead. What sort of undead is up to the DM.

Reach: Normally I'm a big fan of reach and touch spells, but not so much in this case. Curse doesn't lend itself to combat too well. It's true power is in non-combat situations where you gently run the back of your hand across someone's cheek and mutter, 'Thinner'. That said, it's what the DM will let you get away with. So maybe you want to focus on the stat reduction and split ray this puppy.

Reaping: Now you combine this spell with BLoM damage. Use a wizard version so that it is 4th level and can do 3d6 damage. Now the curse? You fail the roll to see if true resurrection works. So if someone wants to bring you back, they need to remove curse FIRST, then they need to check to see if you’re the 50% who gets a second chance.

Silent/Still: If you are going to reach the spell, then Silent and Still it and call your spell, The Evil Eye. No need for invisible spell, here. It just makes your target fall over. You'd better make it reach, because they might think something is up if someone collapses right after you touch them.

Smiting: I don’t know. Maybe a fell weaken strength curse, or a simple -6 to con smiting spell. -6 to con is 3 hit points per level of the target GONE. Combine that with BLoM and a 4th level wizard/sorcerer version and you got yourself a 3d6/-6 con/Damage of the weapon attack. That just might kill a low con target like a mage in one blow. Let's say you do a total of 14 damage on the blow. Lets say your target wizard has a 12 con. Average HP 3.5 a level, -3 hp per level from the con drain, you could, in theory, drop a 28th level mage. Your mileage my vary.

Scrolls

Ah, rolled up pieces of paper holding the words that will forever curse your enemies to a life time of pain and misery. I know this sounds strange, but I always though all curse spells had to be sung in the style of country music. After all, country music IS the music of pain. Well, here are some scroll ideas that will let you sing up some pain on your enemies. Let the bad times roll. Before those times roll, we must conceder how to compare the various scrolls. Alas, with a spell like Bestow Curse, it is difficult to contrast them. So this is one of those spells where you have to use your gut instincts. Is it worth what you are trying to achieve? Is this practical? Am I better of just fireballing the bastard? Go with your instincts. Let the hate build inside you. Come to the dark side. We have cookies.

Bestow Curse [Arcane] (SL4/CL7): 700 gp

Bestow Curse [Divine] (SL3/CL5): 375 gp

As you can see, there is no advantage to adding extra caster levels to the spell. But there is a difference between clerical versions and wizard versions. Fortunately, the court herald is arcane and can cast the spell at 3rd level. But, if your DM doesn't allow court heralds, then the arcane scroll will always be more expensive.

Bestow Curse Black Lore of Moil (SL4/CL7): 775 gp

HP Damage: 3 hp per Target's HD + 3d6 = Avg 13.5 to 70.5 (57.40 to 10.99 gp/hp)

And here we have a perfect example of why it's difficult to rate this spell. If you use the spell for a -6 to con, HP loss is all over the place, depending on the HD of the target. Our example is for HD between 1 and 20. Con loss is the great equalizer. 50 HD Storm Giants are brought low by con loss. And you cannot heal it. Then again, it's a lot of work. keep it in mind, based on the target.

Bestow Curse BLoM/Coercive/Fell Frighten (SL6/CL11): 1650 gp

Here we have the ultimate Will save sapper. A total of -8 to will saves, if they fail a will save. But if it works, the next will save spell will be a walk in the park. And maybe you can convince the DM that you want ONLY to reduce will saves, not all saves, rolls, ability checks, so you can get a -6 to just will saves, giving you a total of -10 for three rounds. Make it count.

Bestow Curse BLoM/Fell Animate (SL6/CL11): 1675 gp

Again, a spell you might need to chat the DM into accepting. I don't think the BLoM is needed, but include it, just to make him happy. You cast it on someone and if he fails his will save, he turns into a ZOMBIE. He loses all powers and class abilities and racial abilities and skills, and becomes a walking corpse that is superior to a normal zombie, only in that he has all he starting hit points, and that the soul of the victim is trapped inside, screaming in horror as he wanders about committing acts of violence while trapped helpless in a rotting shell. If you do use this spell that way, make sure that the spell comes with the clause, "All victims are freed if the caster is killed." That makes for a rather dramatic turn of events. You need to kill the necromancer without killing any of the zombies so you can free them. The other possibility is the zombie becoming free willed. If you want, a victim of this spell goes straight to being a free willed zombie. He wanders about in this rotting flesh, no class abilities, no racial abilities, just BAB, Saves, and Ability Scores, dropping bits and pieces of himself all over the place. Now THAT'S a curse!

Bestow Curse BLoM/Fell Drain (SL5/CL9): 1125 gp

Here you go, poor man's geas. You permanently lose a level that you won't get back until you fulfill some condition for the caster. It's something you need to push past an open minded DM, but not impossible.

Bestow Curse BLoM/Fell Weaken (SL4/CL7): 725 gp

Now we're cooking with gas! maybe you can convince the DM to allow the fell weaken to last just as long as the spell. It only has 1d6 of damage, but that's all it needs. Even if you don't, you have a -10 to strength for the next minute, -6 after that. Suddenly the enemy is -5 to hit and -5 to damage on all melee attacks. He can't use his strength bow. Lots of potential with this combo.

Bestow Curse BLoM/Reach (SL6/CL11): 1725 gp

Basically the standard BLoM 3d6 damage combined with con drain, except now you can cast it out to 30 feet. Much better choice for those touch shy wizards.

Bestow Curse BLoM/Reaping/Heightened+2 (SL9/CL17): 3925 gp

HP Damage: 4d6 = Avg 14 (280.36 gp/hp)

Now what makes this nasty? If you kill someone with this spell, they only have a 50% chance of surviving true resurrection. Now, they are cursed to fail that one roll. Unless you remove curse the body before you try to bring them back, they will fail, and never be able to come back again. I like to call this version, "STAY DEAD… AND THIS TIME I MEAN IT!" Your DM might fear the implications, but remember, the spell has to kill them with an average of 14 points of damage, and the curse is only affecting ONE die roll. There is a way around it, just make sure to remove curse the body before they return. A wish to create a new body would get around this, so don't burn the body. Leave it alone for his friends to find.

Wands

Bestow Curse (SL3/CL5) 11250 gp

Bestow Curse BLoM (SL4/CL7) 24750 gp

Does 3d6 BLoM. I suggest a -6 to con to maximize the HP damage.

Bestow Curse BLoM/Fell Weaken (SL4/CL7) 22250 gp

It does 1d6 BLoM damage and -4 to Str for one round. Play around with the curse it self.

Bestow Curse BLoM/Smiting (SL4/CL7) 23500 gp

If you are going to enhance other people's weapons, ENHANCE. This does 2d6 extra BLoM damage and adds a curse to each blow. Mix and Match as you enhance. I suggest 50% chance of inactivity first followed by: -6 con, -6 str, -6 dex, finally -4 to saves, ability checks-blah blah blah. If you haven't killed the target by the 5th curse, You never should have been in that fight in the first place.
 
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Placeholder

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As long as you maintain self-consistency, or highlight via alarm and spit-takes when some OP character breaks the rules, then it's all good.

Honestly, there are times when I enjoy magical systems with obscured elements and obscured systems.

People don't dunk on Tolkein, Le Guin, or Yoon Ha Lee, ffs.
 

K5Rakitan

Level 34 👪 💍 Pronouns: she/whore ♀
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Do we need a specific formula, specific mana ratio, and wavelengths adjustments or something beside Mana/magic?
If you're a physics or engineering major, go ham! If you're not a physics or engineering major, consider becoming one.

At the end of the day, write the story you want to read, and if math inspires you, include that in your story. You'll find your people that way.
 

Syringe

Bluetooth 7 Enabled Holy Blade w/ Red Dot Sight
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You can honestly just explain the mana channels as being the only way to combine magic, meaning outside of it water and fire will normally interact but through the channels it lets them combine/enhance. It can be what separates gifted mages from the pack (less channels = weaker, more = stronger due to having better access to combinations.

Alternatively, you can use the amount of channels as a way to ratio the magic. Like 2 fire channels + 1 water + whatever you want, such as intentions, inscriptions, magical circles, etc = A certain outcome (like magical steam, or a fire/water double helix attack, etc). This is a harder approach and I don't really recommend it unless it plays a massive part in the story, or if you're just passionate about it. I still think the aforementioned method is a better way of explaining how magic combines through the use of channels.

Also, about the lack of stacking debuffs/buffs:

You have to remember that it can be super unbalanced from a gaming perspective. In your story, you need to explain why new curses overtake old ones. Games don't need to because that's how they're designed.

2 debuffs from 1 darkness spell doesn't sound that outlandish, and you really don't have to explain much. Just say the spell due to its elemental nature, naturally clouds a person's thoughts, and the spell itself is designed to darken the corners of your eyes, kind of like glaucoma. If a spell is designed to deal 2 debuffs, then it's going to deal to 2 debuffs. Not really much to explain.
 

BlackKnightX

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That's the wonderful thing about being an author. You get to decide the rules.
 

Aoi_Sora

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Sometimes, I really wonder if this is scribblehub... or magicians, warlocks and witches hub.
 

BearlyAlive

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There's one easy explanation: It's magic, I don't have to explain shit!

Long answer: You're the author, do your fudging job and authorize it. It will be whatever you make it to be! Wanna combine Fire and Ice into Peppermint ice cream? Just do some vague BS about essences combining into whatever the user wills it and you're done. Want Magic of opposite elements cancel each other no matter the power difference? Just use negative energy as explanation. Want to go sciency and turn Fire and Water into steam? Tough luck, nobody would believe that one...
 

LunaSoltaer

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Many MANY good ideas up above, and yes it is entirely up to you how and if you want elements to combine. if youre afraid of opposite elements clashing, you can do something like Genshin Impact where Element interactions produce a defined result, or Pokemon where its very rare if existant for 2 elements to cancel each other.


For another possible idea, have you considered layering two element systems on top of each other?

like lets say you have regular magic thats magicky and swooshy and boom. You know, elementary stuff.

You can attune that magic to one of the Classical Elements to get firey stuff or windy shit. pretty cool, right?

Well you can also aspect your magic to Light or Darkness, more primoridal forces that can turn your magic into lasers and shadowy globs of force.

The real magic comes though, when you add both a primordial force And an element to your spell:

Magic with both starts to encompass a concept that transcends the nature of the physical element and encroaches onto the symbolic. for example, Water Plus Light can create Healing, whereas Earth Plus Darkness might yield Gravity.

those two specific concepts I use in my current work im writing, so if you do use them i would like a shout out (not required because i havent broken too far from collective unconscious but itd be nice) but feel free to yoink the general idea all you want
 
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